[quote author=UserLoser. link=board=20;threadid=7100;start=0#msg63862 date=1086546145]
[quote author=Arta[vL] link=board=20;threadid=7100;start=0#msg63836 date=1086531720]
Off topic:

This is a great thread. We should sticky it somewhere as an example of how to ask newbie questions. GJ to Kyro.
[/quote]


Yes. Adron, you should help out more in B.net BotDev. And his explanations should be posted there too.
[/quote]

I don't really like the amount of stickied threads, the amount of stupid posts (repeats of the same question or off-topic replies), and typically someone will have answered already by the time I get to a post (even if it's just an off-topic reply there, I prefer the posts clean).

Yes, too many stupid questions is my biggest problem, it's why I don't really post here. There is just too much to read through. I'll usually click on this, read the list of new topics, and decided that none of them are worth reading.

[quote author=Adron link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63940 date=1086598780]
I don't really like the amount of stickied threads
[/quote]

Oops, they were supposed to be unsticked a while ago. Thanks for the reminder!

[quote author=Adron link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63940 date=1086598780]
the amount of stupid posts (repeats of the same question or off-topic replies)
[/quote]

Maybe we should make a separate forum for ADVANCED Battle.net bot development discussion, for things which haven't been discussed 100 times over?

What are others opinions on this?

Or just make "new to battle.net bot development"

[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63974 date=1086634208]
[quote author=Adron link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63940 date=1086598780]
the amount of stupid posts (repeats of the same question or off-topic replies)
[/quote]

Maybe we should make a separate forum for ADVANCED Battle.net bot development discussion, for things which haven't been discussed 100 times over?

What are others opinions on this?
[/quote]

Only certain members allowed ;)

[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63974 date=1086634208]
[quote author=Adron link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63940 date=1086598780]
the amount of stupid posts (repeats of the same question or off-topic replies)
[/quote]

Maybe we should make a separate forum for ADVANCED Battle.net bot development discussion, for things which haven't been discussed 100 times over?

What are others opinions on this?
[/quote]

I would be in favor of this.

i like that.. but y'all would probly ban me because... uh just because ::)

I think it sounds like a good Idea that should be approached.

[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63974 date=1086634208]
[quote author=Adron link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63940 date=1086598780]
the amount of stupid posts (repeats of the same question or off-topic replies)
[/quote]

Maybe we should make a separate forum for ADVANCED Battle.net bot development discussion, for things which haven't been discussed 100 times over?

What are others opinions on this?
[/quote]

I'm sure it's a good idea. I would imagine some people will simply post questions in either or both forums without too much thought about which one they should use. Any ideas as to how you draw the line between what is an advanced discussion or not?

i would think asking for Packet Parsing help and other questions of the sort might be in the more advanced forum... and

post your source, please fix should belong in the other one

I would have to agree with baddblood, that seems like a logical way to do it.

The problem with having two forums which basically account for the same thing is one will typically be completely ignored and inactive while the other one will be active with avid posters. Look at the General Programming and Advanced Programming forums. I haven't seen a post in the Advanced Programming forum for months now. Just something you should keep in mind. If you want it to be successful I'd recommend providing something in the forum which isn't included in the other or making a clear difference between the two boards not necessarily present in the two programming boards; perhaps a different subject to discuss?

Edit: Appears to be a last post on May 17th, but that was a single post by Skywing which didn't account for any replies...The last post with replies was February 22nd, 2004...

Good idea, break [Bot Development] down into sperate sections. Instead of having one big forum on it, have it sectional, like a specific forum for packet related questions, and maybe another for general discussion on bot idea's and designs, and so on..... That should cut down on the same questions being asked more than once.

[quote author=Eternal link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg64016 date=1086645482]
[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63974 date=1086634208]
[quote author=Adron link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg63940 date=1086598780]
the amount of stupid posts (repeats of the same question or off-topic replies)
[/quote]

Maybe we should make a separate forum for ADVANCED Battle.net bot development discussion, for things which haven't been discussed 100 times over?

What are others opinions on this?
[/quote]

I'm sure it's a good idea. I would imagine some people will simply post questions in either or both forums without too much thought about which one they should use. Any ideas as to how you draw the line between what is an advanced discussion or not?
[/quote]

I think you should make two sepret forums. One for actual b.net packet information/help/discution and another for bot related programming (syntax help). That way you have the newbs who dont know how to program posting on one forum and the intelligent questions about packet use on another. That would by my way of drawing the line and you wouldnt even have to call one forum more advanced then the other.

EDIT: damn you lordnevar!

I'm not exactly saying we should make an "advanced forum" and a "newbie forum." Just the possibility of there being a separate forum for discussion of new and original ideas, and the other forum would have the -1 ping / displaying icons / CSB posts.

There are new idea in bot development these days?

Zeller, It doesn't matter who posted it first. It only matters if people believe and agree on the same ideas. :)

Seperating this forum sounds good in theory, but let's face it, people are stupid. Some people never use the search feature, some never check google, some don't check the documents section, some don't even know how to program.

The fact alone that we have people posting CSB related questions in the Visual Basic Programming Forum and visa versa ruins the point of having seperate forums so closely related.

It's inevitable that we'll end up seeing an increase in the number of off-topic posts because of the simple fact that so many people don't even bother to read. If the moderators are up to it, then by all means, do it - if not, I don't think you should waste your time.

[quote author=LordNevar link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=0#msg64025 date=1086648843]
Good idea, break [Bot Development] down into sperate sections. Instead of having one big forum on it, have it sectional, like a specific forum for packet related questions, and maybe another for general discussion on bot idea's and designs, and so on..... That should cut down on the same questions being asked more than once.
[/quote]

I have to agree with lord nevar...

Break down BotDev into seperate but Equal sections

[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64034 date=1086649956]
I'm not exactly saying we should make an "advanced forum" and a "newbie forum." Just the possibility of there being a separate forum for discussion of new and original ideas, and the other forum would have the -1 ping / displaying icons / CSB posts.
[/quote]

This sounds like a good idea. I don't think separate sections for each topic are necessary, but the advanced "actual discussion" forum versus the "gimme code" forum is definitely a good move.

[quote author=Stealth link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64082 date=1086666302]
[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64034 date=1086649956]
I'm not exactly saying we should make an "advanced forum" and a "newbie forum." Just the possibility of there being a separate forum for discussion of new and original ideas, and the other forum would have the -1 ping / displaying icons / CSB posts.
[/quote]

This sounds like a good idea. I don't think separate sections for each topic are necessary, but the advanced "actual discussion" forum versus the "gimme code" forum is definitely a good move.
[/quote]

THat is also a good idea

[quote author=Stealth link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64082 date=1086666302]
[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64034 date=1086649956]
I'm not exactly saying we should make an "advanced forum" and a "newbie forum." Just the possibility of there being a separate forum for discussion of new and original ideas, and the other forum would have the -1 ping / displaying icons / CSB posts.
[/quote]

This sounds like a good idea. I don't think separate sections for each topic are necessary, but the advanced "actual discussion" forum versus the "gimme code" forum is definitely a good move.
[/quote]

It doesn't sound like a good idea at all. There are no advanced bot development questions.

[quote author=Maddox link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64086 date=1086666749]
[quote author=Stealth link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64082 date=1086666302]
[quote author=Spht link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64034 date=1086649956]
I'm not exactly saying we should make an "advanced forum" and a "newbie forum." Just the possibility of there being a separate forum for discussion of new and original ideas, and the other forum would have the -1 ping / displaying icons / CSB posts.
[/quote]

This sounds like a good idea. I don't think separate sections for each topic are necessary, but the advanced "actual discussion" forum versus the "gimme code" forum is definitely a good move.
[/quote]

It doesn't sound like a good idea at all. There are no advanced bot development questions.
[/quote]

There might be sometime in the future, with WoW. Isn't Battle.net BotDev since it's not on Battle.net, but I guess it'd still fit under this topic

[quote author=iago link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64035 date=1086650041]
There are new idea in bot development these days?
[/quote]

Ofcourse not. I think it's a pointless idea. It'd just the same help people out being in the original bot dev forum than in a seperate bot dev forum.

Perhaps before we make another forum we should decide what an advanced topic might be.

Keep the BotDev forum, but make another forum for packet related questions only. Like the packets that are covered on bnetdocs, and ones that are not. Also on classes, and subclass designs based off those packets. All other non essential information can be placed in botdev, like bot design and how to's.

Ex1: [Packet Overviews] My 0x7D Isn't working, here is my code any feedback would be nice.

Ex2: [BOTDEV] How would I go about adding icons to a listview?

Just a thought, seems logical.

[quote author=LordNevar link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=15#msg64137 date=1086702810]
Ex2: [BOTDEV] How would I go about adding icons to a listview?
[/quote]

That's off-topic and should be moved to the Visual Basic Programming forum. :P

A very long time ago I suggested that someone make a site that basically had everything ever posted on vL forums:

https://davnit.net/bnet/vL/phpbbs/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=4954;start=0

I didn't mean loads of people to take code and simply and copy and paste I simply meant that what ever info that was provided here could've been made into a site which people could go to.

If the site had been made it could've cut down on CSB users and source stealers and newbs overall.

It's almost like discussions on IRC that have put into notepad and distributed as tutorials. Thus those of you who said they are sick of discussing the same thing 100 times it would be on the site once and be over with. Also bnetdocs is very information but is not the same thing as what I was trying to explain. I meant that we could take relavant posts in the topic so people can see where problems occured and what other people thought while trying to go through it.

Maybe you could create a separate bot development reference forum that doesn't allow users to post, just read. The idea being that if a moderator is willing to go through the current bot development forum and find all the original, worth-while threads and post them there. As more discussions worthy of the reference are finished they could be cleaned up and placed there as well. I think that could help limit the number of repeated questions being asked, at least for those of us willing to read.

That's a pretty good idea. A reference archive for stuff that's useful and worth reading. I like that.

Here's a few things I think should go into the reference archive:

* "What Goes Into a Bot - Terminology"; describe BNCS, BNLS, CSB, BotNet, how they mix and mingle, and other basic knowledge that we expect people to know when they ask questions

* Basic (and perhaps intermediate?) CSB help/info

* Event information (perhaps just copy + paste or link to the packet 0x0f tutorial on botdev)

* CDKeyDecode, HashData, and CheckRevision information (also, perhaps links to download libraries and/or source), as well as the BNLS equivalents

* BNI parsing and adding icons to a ListView

* Getting profiles and all known profile keys, as well as which keys are cross-product (eg, which keys work when you get a WAR3 user's profile while logged onto STAR and vice-versa).

* Friends list information (how it works)

* Clan information (how it works, what you can and can't do)

* BNCS's game packets (eg getting the game list, game create, game leave, game results, etc... not the individual game packets for each game)

* MCP usage (how to connect and login, how to select a character, how to change a character, etc)

* Getting 0 or -1 ping, and getting the No UDP flag, as well as which products don't allow which (such as WarCraft 3 doesn't allow for -1 ping nor No UDP, IIRC).

* Using Wildcards (common wildcard usage and how it's generally expected to work; perhaps some code examples)

* User databases (both letter (flags?) based and number based user databases, and how they might work)


Also, I think that in order to encourage use of this new forum, the total number of threads shouldn't exceed one or perhaps two pages... otherwise it'd start to get hard to find them without using the search feature (as most new threads in here don't).

Lastly, I'd expect that we'd still get lots of new threads on our current forum. Even so, having a separate "reference" forum would make it devilishly easy to simply say "go read this" and then paste in a URL for the user to read. The thread that we link to should be simple enough that almost anyone that says "i don't understand" would most likely be too stupid to do anything programming related.

[quote author=tA-Kane link=board=17;threadid=7132;start=30#msg64874 date=1087067287]Lastly, I'd expect that we'd still get lots of new threads on our current forum. Even so, having a separate "reference" forum would make it devilishly easy to simply say "go read this" and then paste in a URL for the user to read. The thread that we link to should be simple enough that almost anyone that says "i don't understand" would most likely be too stupid to do anything programming related.
[/quote]

I was more concerned with the people that aren't too stupid when I brought up the idea. I know for myself at least, references are an invaluable tool to help me with my bad memory. ;) It is nice being able to quickly find information on a subject, when I am faced with a problem that would benefit from the information.