Actually, releasing sources is a very good way for people to see how a bot is made and to learn off it. It's the people who abuse this freedom and copy these codes that make open source codes bad...

[quote]they'll do it themselves.[/quote]

that's only if they're intelligent enough

And I agree that releasing source code does more damage than good.

I agree in principle. It would certainly eliminate those that use form1.caption = "my ace bot" then claim they wrote it.

Working off source codes all the time will never help you learn. Reverse engineering someone elses code just doesn't help you in the long run.

I recently wrote a simple configuration maker for ZDS bots, something I wanted to help me organise things. Had I not bothered to read books, plan what exactly I wanted it to do (yep, even writing it all down with flow diagrams!) I would never have learn't what I did.

Sure, I've looked at people's sources before...even tinkered with them, but ultimately, the best way to learn is do it yourself.

<shrugs>

[quote]ultimately, the best way to learn is do it yourself.[/quote]

plain and simply.

St0rm, mine is Visual Bot Studio Enterprise.

I actually started on a VB addin that was called Visual Bot Studio, but ditched it cause it was lame.

Only good sources are certain components and samples, such as a userdatabase. I don't think sources should compile as-is too; then people don't learn from it.

Bot makers should make little bugs only a decent botmaker could find out. Maybe this would stop newbs from putting there name on someone elses work.

Or, if it's such a big deal to them that ppl don't read or use their sources, then maybe they just shouldn't release their source files???  I don't see Skywing complaining that newbies are copying his sources... o yeah thats right, he didn't release them!

I agree with coltz o yea good covor for ur name warz i dont think anyone noticed warz spelled backwords

Btw, saying "Sources" and "Codes" is totally incorrect [when referring to source code], whoever is doing this, stop putting an 's' on the end of everything.  I believe Grok posted something about this a long time ago, I just thought the point should be brought up again.  I personally think it makes people look pretty silly, I dont know if anybody else cares though.

moonshine if they are reffering to more then one then they are correct!

It's ok to say Sources and Codes when you program in Visual Basics. ;)

"src" plz kthx! ;)

[quote]Only good sources are certain components and samples, such as a userdatabase. [/quote]

To you. What if somebody needs to see a sample of a bot connecting? A sample of adding items to a listview? Best/worste ways of doing things?

Even doing form.caption stuff is learning. Some people might even be stuck with compiler confusion. Those lines separating the different functions.. i mean damn, that could be confusing to somebody wondering how "open file as append" and crap is even code.

I highly doubt you know how other people prefer to learn. I know you're speaking from experience, but your experience to a beginner means nothing, if they don't even know what you're talking about.

thats about dumb, if somebody wanted to learn a language bad enough to look at others source to learn such simple things, they would take a trip to the library.

[quote] It'll only increase the proliferation of losers who think VB is "Visual Bot Studio Professional"[/quote]
With all due respect, "Why do you care?"

People learn lots of different ways. I teach 1-2 people beginners vb each week. This week alone I've taught 3 people how to use packet loggers and basic socket use. 2 of them have a working telnet bot and I just explained vb to them not even a month ago. The other one is designing a small game to play across tcp/ip based networks.

It's very possible to teach people without handing out sources but rather hinting them. I am plain and clear that I will not say "here this is how you do it" to anyone I teach.

Maybe if more people actually spent time helping others rather then complaining that there are so many newbies out there we would have less of a problem.

Programming does not come easy to everyone. Some poeple can't grasp it from a book or even looking at others code.

So some source is good. IT's bad for those that abuse it. But everything in the world is that way.

[code]thats about dumb, if somebody wanted to learn a language bad enough to look at others source to learn such simple things, they would take a trip to the library. [/code]

Well i know i leaned how to make shit in vb by looking at code and seeing what everything does, Books just dont work for me because they go to slow. People hinting at what to do is very rare because people always bitch about newbies then they ask for help and they bitch more!

Here is how the typical person who wants to learn how to code using other's source code  (i knew one)

First he will say to himself, "I am not going to copy this code im just going to look at it. Then I will try to create my own bot!"

Then when he is ready to write his bot he will say to himself, "Damn I can't remember that!" and he will constantly find himself looking and literally just retyping the other persons code.

Then when he finally figures out he doesn't remember or know what anything does. He decides to start copying and pasting "sections" of the other persons code.

Eventually this person ends up with a "child" so-to-say of the original only lacking a few features or possibly having a few lame features added, and of course with his name on it..

When you want to learn a language the first and most important thing is learning the syntax, then learning the API and remember practice makes perfect! the world is wide jump in =p

I dont copy/paste  :P but i used other codes to help me learnbut yea ur right the average person would do that because it is simply hard to learn if you have never seen it before. but when i started out i started with a moving ball in vb then i worked up

Well, there goes the whole "Open Source Movement" :P

yeah heh. I'm all for it. Although i don't release all my stuff because I need to have security systems involved in it. but everything else i opensource.

I wonder if anyone tried to every patent the msgbox command in vb.... Or if thats even possible hehe just occured to me.

I don't believe in the "open source movement" because it is not something to be believed or not.  Whether an individual or entity wants to provide source code for their binaries is their own decision.

Whether the purchaser or user wants to use the binaries without having access to or seeing the source code is purely their own decision too.

Before you say "well they make the only/best product of that type" let me say "Wahhhhh".  Make your own if you don't like the arrangement, or commission some group/programmer to do it for you, the way you want it done.

Products I write for work do not always include the source code.  I use this reasoning:

*  If I wrote something on my own time/money and then offer/sell the product to the customers, the source does not go with it unless negotiated for.  Reason?  Once I sell them the source, I'm not guaranteed to make future money on that product sales, upgrades, maintenance, or support.

*  If the customer pays my wages during a commission for a project, I consider the source code to be theirs.

*  If the customer negotiates a fixed-rate for a product based on a specification and deliverables schedule, the source code belongs to me, unless negotiated for and included in the deliverables.

Pretty much anything under 1000 lines of code I will give away for free, unless its pure genius or has realistic money making potential.  Which means I release everything this small :)

I disagree. I think it IS bad.

I had source available to me when I was writing the hardest part of ZakBot (the connection and logon process code). I very easily could have copied and pasted huge chunks of code. Instead, the documents I looked at the most were the MSDN library, a WinSock tutorial I found online, and the BNLS protocol spec, which details the contents of and responses to all the logon packets.

I had no example code available concerning the Windows API. I had to do EVERYTHING for the graphical interface on my own. I asked questions about a few things to Sky and/or Yoni, but that was it.

I learned an enormous amount of new things (and I still am, since ZakBot isn't what I would consider "complete" yet - functional, but not complete).

I have enough understanding of the things I did to be able to help other people on the very same topics that would have been beyond my experience 6 months ago - because I had to understand it in order to write it. Would I have gained that same understanding by copying things? I doubt it.

My point was that I had source available but refused to copy from it.

Codes is bad. It's source code.
Sources refers to multiple source files or source code to multiple projects.

I know how to talk kthnx ;)

[quote]Codes is bad. It's source code.
Sources refers to multiple source files or source code to multiple projects. [/quote]

Yes.