.

[quote author=iago link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=0#msg54570 date=1081707474]
.
[/quote]

I'm going to be 15 in 9 days. :)

I'll be 16 in 3 months.

I'm old enough to be your daddy. You can call me daddy.

[quote author=Thing link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=0#msg54600 date=1081714561]
I'm old enough to be your daddy. You can call me daddy.
[/quote]

And exactly how old is that?

I'll be 14 in June -.^

[quote author=Thing link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=0#msg54600 date=1081714561]
I'm old enough to be your daddy. You can call me daddy.
[/quote]

And what about me?

[quote author=Thing link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=0#msg54600 date=1081714561]
I'm old enough to be your daddy. You can call me daddy.
[/quote]

Daddy Thing. I like that!

And so far, it's 20% over 25, not the predicted 10%!

[quote]And what about me?[/quote]
My daughter is 26 and has a two year old son. :-*

Even better, Grandpa Thing!

I'm 16 ;)

87 + 12 = 99

Haha, someone look for the missing %.

Hey, Only 3% off now, 1 more vote should do it.

Nope. 1% off with my vote. :P

Yep, only 19

Yes.

wow, it's 90% - 10%. Cool :)

17 in 5 months.

[quote author=Thing link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=0#msg54657 date=1081733307]
[quote]And what about me?[/quote]
My daughter is 26 and has a two year old son. :-*
[/quote]

Ah, neat, then you could just as well be my father too. Wasn't sure if you were just 40 or so.

He's 40 with a 26 year old daughter?
[me=j0k3r]does some math[/me]

Damn...

I should clarify. She is my step-daughter and my wife is considerably older than me.
I could have technically conceived her but I would have been in Jr. High at the time.
Sometimes when she and I are out together, people think she is my girlfriend / wife.
It freaks them out when I introduce her as my daughter. :)

Haha, sounds awesome.

And damn old people, 17% now.

[quote author=Thing link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54742 date=1081775124]
I should clarify. She is my step-daughter and my wife is considerably older than me.
I could have technically conceived her but I would have been in Jr. High at the time.
Sometimes when she and I are out together, people think she is my girlfriend / wife.
It freaks them out when I introduce her as my daughter. :)
[/quote]

Oh, so you are in your early fourties? Jr. High isn't a very exact way of telling age to us swedes, considering we have lågstadie, mellanstadie, högstadie and gymnasium...

And here I was being impressed that you were 50 or more...

[quote]lågstadie, mellanstadie, högstadie and gymnasium... [/quote]
I have no idea what those are but my birthday is Aug. 27, 1960. Now that you know, I'll expect many extravagant gifts on that day.

[quote author=Thing link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54870 date=1081817049]
[quote]lågstadie, mellanstadie, högstadie and gymnasium... [/quote]
I have no idea what those are but my birthday is Aug. 27, 1960. Now that you know, I'll expect many extravagant gifts on that day.
[/quote]

Can I still call you Grandpa Thing?

August 27th? ... You joking! My birthday is August 27th too! Holy crap, thats really creepy.

[quote author=KoRRuPT link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54900 date=1081828816]
August 27th? ... You joking! My birthday is August 27th too! Holy crap, thats really creepy.
[/quote]

Why's it creepy? DarkVirus and I have the same birthday and we don't find it creepy. :P

I find it creepy because its a one in a billion chance, and it basically happened twice to me. Thing has the same birthday as me, and iago lives five minutes away.

[quote author=KoRRuPT link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54904 date=1081832519]
I find it creepy because its a one in a billion chance, and it basically happened twice to me. Thing has the same birthday as me, and iago lives five minutes away.
[/quote]

1/365 != 1/1000000000.

[quote author=Thing link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54870 date=1081817049]
[quote]lågstadie, mellanstadie, högstadie and gymnasium... [/quote]
I have no idea what those are but my birthday is Aug. 27, 1960. Now that you know, I'll expect many extravagant gifts on that day.
[/quote]

Ok, I'll remember that. Mine's Apr. 19, 1977, so you better get to work sending some neat stuff right away! :P

[quote author=K link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54906 date=1081832874]
[quote author=KoRRuPT link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54904 date=1081832519]
I find it creepy because its a one in a billion chance, and it basically happened twice to me. Thing has the same birthday as me, and iago lives five minutes away.
[/quote]

1/365 != 1/1000000000.
[/quote]

With 26 randomly-selected people, there is a 50% chance that a non-specific two will have the same birthday.

[quote author=Grok link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54926 date=1081853806]
[quote author=K link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54906 date=1081832874]
[quote author=KoRRuPT link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54904 date=1081832519]
I find it creepy because its a one in a billion chance, and it basically happened twice to me. Thing has the same birthday as me, and iago lives five minutes away.
[/quote]

1/365 != 1/1000000000.
[/quote]

With 26 randomly-selected people, there is a 50% chance that a non-specific two will have the same birthday.
[/quote]

I think the odds are actually much higher than that, if I recall correctly. With a group of 30 people it was nearly 100% (>95% anyway).

Aha, I found a program I threw together in Philosophy last year to test out what our prof told us:

[code]public class Birthday
{
public static final int PEOPLE = 50;
public static final int DAYS = 365;
public static final int TESTSIZE = 100000;

public static boolean []birthdays;

public static boolean BDay()
{
birthdays = new boolean[DAYS];

for(int i = 0; i < PEOPLE; i++)
{
int ThisBDay = (int)(Math.random() * 365.0);

if(birthdays[ThisBDay] == true)
return true;
birthdays[ThisBDay] = true;
}

return false;
}

public static void main(String args[])
{
int Num = 0;

for(int i = 0; i < TESTSIZE; i++)
{
if(BDay())
Num++;
}

System.out.println("In " + TESTSIZE + " groups of " + PEOPLE + " people, " + Num + " groups had at least one shared birthday.");
System.out.println(Num/((double)TESTSIZE / 100.0) + "%");
}
}
[/code]

In 1000000 groups of 25 people, 569786 groups had at least one shared birthday.
56.9786%

In 100000 groups of 30 people, 70726 groups had at least one shared birthday.
70.726%

In 100000 groups of 40 people, 89194 groups had at least one shared birthday.
89.194%

In 100000 groups of 50 people, 97040 groups had at least one shared birthday.
97.04%

In 100000 groups of 60 people, 99434 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.434%

In 100000 groups of 70 people, 99920 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.92%

This forum has 972 accounts so.. well, there's guarenteed to be at least 2 pairs no matter how you look at it, so I won't bother trying :)



<edit> Just for fun, I made it iterative:
[quote]In 100000 groups of 0 people, 0 groups had at least one shared birthday.
0.0%
In 100000 groups of 5 people, 2726 groups had at least one shared birthday.
2.726%
In 100000 groups of 10 people, 11647 groups had at least one shared birthday.
11.647%
In 100000 groups of 15 people, 25174 groups had at least one shared birthday.
25.174%
In 100000 groups of 20 people, 41299 groups had at least one shared birthday.
41.299%
In 100000 groups of 25 people, 56907 groups had at least one shared birthday.
56.907%
In 100000 groups of 30 people, 70553 groups had at least one shared birthday.
70.553%
In 100000 groups of 35 people, 81299 groups had at least one shared birthday.
81.299%
In 100000 groups of 40 people, 89148 groups had at least one shared birthday.
89.148%
In 100000 groups of 45 people, 94272 groups had at least one shared birthday.
94.272%
In 100000 groups of 50 people, 97008 groups had at least one shared birthday.
97.008%
In 100000 groups of 55 people, 98612 groups had at least one shared birthday.
98.612%
In 100000 groups of 60 people, 99425 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.425%
In 100000 groups of 65 people, 99739 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.739%
In 100000 groups of 70 people, 99920 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.92%
In 100000 groups of 75 people, 99972 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.972%
In 100000 groups of 80 people, 99991 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.991%
In 100000 groups of 85 people, 99996 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.996%
In 100000 groups of 90 people, 100000 groups had at least one shared birthday.
100.0%
In 100000 groups of 95 people, 99998 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.998%
In 100000 groups of 100 people, 100000 groups had at least one shared birthday.
100.0%
In 100000 groups of 105 people, 100000 groups had at least one shared birthday.
100.0%
In 100000 groups of 110 people, 100000 groups had at least one shared birthday.
100.0%
In 100000 groups of 115 people, 100000 groups had at least one shared birthday.
100.0%
In 100000 groups of 70 people, 99920 groups had at least one shared birthday.
99.92%
In 100000 groups of 120 people, 100000 groups had at least one shared birthday.
100.0%
In 100000 groups of 125 people, 100000 groups had at least one shared birthday.
100.0%[/quote]

[quote author=iago link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg54935 date=1081862196]
[quote author=Grok link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54926 date=1081853806]
[quote author=K link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54906 date=1081832874]
[quote author=KoRRuPT link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=15#msg54904 date=1081832519]
I find it creepy because its a one in a billion chance, and it basically happened twice to me. Thing has the same birthday as me, and iago lives five minutes away.
[/quote]

1/365 != 1/1000000000.
[/quote]

With 26 randomly-selected people, there is a 50% chance that a non-specific two will have the same birthday.
[/quote]

I think the odds are actually much higher than that, if I recall correctly. With a group of 30 people it was nearly 100% (>95% anyway).
[/quote]

30 is way more than 26. You don't need a program to figure this out. Math works fine. Ah, the actual number was 23, my bad.

PROOF: http://www.itsecurity.com/dictionary/bday.htm

My philosophy teacher did the proof for us. But I like programs better. They'll generally work out to the same thing, which mine did at one time, for sure. I might have broken it when I converted from windows C++ to Java.

<edit> actually, it WAS right. 25 =~ 57% and 20 =~ 42%, so 23 would be ~50% if I had outputed it :)

14 May 24th.

I actually spent a lot of time reading www.wikipedia.com and mathworld.wolfram.com and a few other things about the Birthday Paradox and Birthday Attack. I enjoyed the part about how it can be used to defeat message digests and such.

[quote author=iago link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55008 date=1081896561]
I actually spent a lot of time reading www.wikipedia.com and mathworld.wolfram.com and a few other things about the Birthday Paradox and Birthday Attack. I enjoyed the part about how it can be used to defeat message digests and such.
[/quote]

Well, I'm not so sure their reasoning was the correct explanation of the birthday paradox. There's a huge difference between the chances of finding someone among 23 who has MY birthday, and the chances of finding two people among 23 who have the same birthday. Specifically, the chances are 23 times better in the latter case.

[quote author=Grok link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55017 date=1081900238]
[quote author=iago link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55008 date=1081896561]
I actually spent a lot of time reading www.wikipedia.com and mathworld.wolfram.com and a few other things about the Birthday Paradox and Birthday Attack. I enjoyed the part about how it can be used to defeat message digests and such.
[/quote]

Well, I'm not so sure their reasoning was the correct explanation of the birthday paradox. There's a huge difference between the chances of finding someone among 23 who has MY birthday, and the chances of finding two people among 23 who have the same birthday. Specifically, the chances are 23 times better in the latter case.
[/quote]

Yes, at least one of the sources I read made that distinction. Part of the description was taking a text document that you want somebody to digitally sign, making changes to the meaning then making small changes (commas, spaces, tabs, etc) in both till you find one that match. You quickly get a large pool where a match between real1, real2, real3...realn and fake1, fake2, .... faken gets likely pretty fast.

[quote author=iago link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55019 date=1081901866]
Yes, at least one of the sources I read made that distinction. Part of the description was taking a text document that you want somebody to digitally sign, making changes to the meaning then making small changes (commas, spaces, tabs, etc) in both till you find one that match. You quickly get a large pool where a match between real1, real2, real3...realn and fake1, fake2, .... faken gets likely pretty fast.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say "pretty fast"... What you're doing is reduce the complexity by a square root. For a 128 bit hash, the complexity is about the same as a 64 bit symmetric cipher. Also, to use a birthday attack, you need to be able to store all those values that you've calculated. To attack a 128 bit hash, you need to have at least 134217728 TB storage easily and quickly accessible.

[quote author=Adron link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55063 date=1081957745]
[quote author=iago link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55019 date=1081901866]
Yes, at least one of the sources I read made that distinction. Part of the description was taking a text document that you want somebody to digitally sign, making changes to the meaning then making small changes (commas, spaces, tabs, etc) in both till you find one that match. You quickly get a large pool where a match between real1, real2, real3...realn and fake1, fake2, .... faken gets likely pretty fast.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say "pretty fast"... What you're doing is reduce the complexity by a square root. For a 128 bit hash, the complexity is about the same as a 64 bit symmetric cipher. Also, to use a birthday attack, you need to be able to store all those values that you've calculated. To attack a 128 bit hash, you need to have at least 134217728 TB storage easily and quickly accessible.

[/quote]

hmm..

*researches prices*

Ok, I'm going to stick with breaking 8-bit hashes.

aww this is my bad, I accidentally voted No for under 25. Damn you mother fuckers and your abnormal wording!

I'm almost 97 years old believe it or not.

[quote author=jigsaw link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55637 date=1082284283]
I'm almost 97 years old believe it or not.
[/quote]I love you just the way you are.

[quote author=Hostile link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55610 date=1082254544]
aww this is my bad, I accidentally voted No for under 25. Damn you mother fuckers and your abnormal wording!
[/quote]

What's so hard about "are you under 25"?

[quote author=iago link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55661 date=1082306163]
[quote author=Hostile link=board=35;threadid=6257;start=30#msg55610 date=1082254544]
aww this is my bad, I accidentally voted No for under 25. Damn you mother fuckers and your abnormal wording!
[/quote]

What's so hard about "are you under 25"?
[/quote]
Damn lawyer-speak!