I was thinking about this a little bit at work today , about all the current events , and the most current one of all , the Assination of the "Hamas" founder/spiritual leader. This is a wide discussion open to debate , and im aware that this is a touchey subject , and i do not wish to offend anyone , i just want to here differing oppionions.

What do you think?

I believe Yoni is from Israel , so im very eager to here what he has to say.

P.S Moderators if this isnt the right forum , then feel free to move me

Well, Israel uses terrorist methods to strike fear into the palestinians, so it's a terrorist state. Unfortunately, not all terrorist states are treated equally.

Ding Ding ;D

I was so saddened to hear he was assassinated. He was the only funny person in the head of the Palestinian terrorist organizations. :( Reminds me of when Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf disappeared... I felt the same then.

"Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf disappeared" , enlighten me Yoni

[quote author=NuLL link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51234 date=1080084879]
"Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf disappeared" , enlighten me Yoni
[/quote]

He is the Iraqi Minister of Information. Baghdad Bob as some called him.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

ah yes , "Baghdad Bob" , did he die? is that a fact , i was under the impresssion the little bastard ran to Syria or some other middle eastern country.

[quote]

He is the Iraqi Minister of Information. Baghdad Bob as some called him.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

[/quote]

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"

"Our initial assessment is that they will all die"

"We are not afraid of the Americans. Allah has condemned them. They are stupid. They are stupid" (dramatic pause) "and they are condemned."

3 of my favourites

I like it how when Israel kills one Palestinian, it makes frontpage news, when an Arab goes into the middle of public place with a bomb strapped onto the chest taking out 200+ Israelies, it make's the 4th page.

Sure, that gimp on a wheel chair couldn't escape the 5 missiles launched at him, but atleast none of them killed civilians. Arabs simply hate all Israelies. Israelies only hate the ones who cause trouble (all of The Hammas). As well as anyone willing to strap a bomb to their chest and take a bus full of school kids out.

[quote author=Noodlez link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51266 date=1080090562]
I like it how when Israel kills one Palestinian, it makes frontpage news, when an Arab goes into the middle of public place with a bomb strapped onto the chest taking out 200+ Israelies, it make's the 4th page.[/quote]

Bravo. Of course, that's the liberal media (I hope I don't *offend* anyone here) bias. Hate America, hate Israel, hate freedom, viva socialism.

[quote author=Noodlez link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51266 date=1080090562]
I like it how when Israel kills one Palestinian, it makes frontpage news, when an Arab goes into the middle of public place with a bomb strapped onto the chest taking out 200+ Israelies, it make's the 4th page.

Sure, that gimp on a wheel chair couldn't escape the 5 missiles launched at him, but atleast none of them killed civilians. Arabs simply hate all Israelies. Israelies only hate the ones who cause trouble (all of The Hammas). As well as anyone willing to strap a bomb to their chest and take a bus full of school kids out.
[/quote]

I'm sure if a suicide bomber killed a high ranking Israeli official, then it would make front page news. Point is, there's more to it than what you're saying.

The thing is, a suicide bomber never will kill a high ranking Israelie official.

Hmm, why not?

Anyone remember the assassination of Minister "Ghandi" Ze'evi? He was murdered by a palestinian. Some palestinian terrorist organization took responsibility[1] for the assassination.

Maybe it wasn't a suicide bomber as "usual" but it was exactly the same.
This didn't happen a hundred years ago, it happened in October 2001.

Why does nobody remember this, and why didn't it make the huge impact that it should have? Because he was right-winged[2]. And that's all I have to say about that.

[hr][1] None of you live in Israel so I'll tell you how this thing works.
Whenever there is a suicide bombing or an assassination, as soon as it's reported, one of the several palestinian terrorist organizations hurry to "take responsibility", which basically means telling the media that they did it. They take pride in their actions.
Sometimes multiple organizations claim responsibility for the same action. Obviously some or all of them are lying to gain publicity or whatever. It's pretty silly.

[2] Just an example: In all Israeli schools, we have a memorial for the day the former (*coughs* left-winged) prime minister Yitzchak Rabin was assassinated. However, there's no memorial day for former minister Ze'evi.

[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51272 date=1080091040]Hate America, hate Israel, hate freedom, viva socialism.[/quote]

Have you ever studied socialism? You couldn't really get more free than in a true socialist state. The concept is rather admirable. The problem, of course, lies in the fact that it's completely impossible to implement in a fair and honest fashion (numerous real-world failures attest to this).

I believe the problem stems from a young age , ive seen news reports where children (Palestinian) where interviewed , and said they would glady give there lives for the "cause"

Excuse me but WTF is the "cause"

Who is to blame for that? i believe 2 key factors are at blame

(A) Parents? Like come on , last time i came home with a RPG Lanucher my mother grounded me for like 6 years? These kids on the other hand are encouraged to take up arms? why?

(B) Government? this is where the parents get it from , and they pass it on to there children and so forth. 1 big terrorist chain.

[quote author=Zakath link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51308 date=1080097323]
[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51272 date=1080091040]Hate America, hate Israel, hate freedom, viva socialism.[/quote]

Have you ever studied socialism? You couldn't really get more free than in a true socialist state. The concept is rather admirable. The problem, of course, lies in the fact that it's completely impossible to implement in a fair and honest fashion (numerous real-world failures attest to this).
[/quote]

Yes, I have studied it in-depth (a political science major I am). Theoretically, you are correct. However, do you see humans changing so that it will be so in practice?

[quote author=NuLL link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51316 date=1080098307]
I believe the problem stems from a young age , ive seen news reports where children (Palestinian) where interviewed , and said they would glady give there lives for the "cause"

Excuse me but WTF is the "cause"

Who is to blame for that? i believe 2 key factors are at blame

(A) Parents? Like come on , last time i came home with a RPG Lanucher my mother grounded me for like 6 years? These kids on the other hand are encouraged to take up arms? why?

(B) Government? this is where the parents get it from , and they pass it on to there children and so forth. 1 big terrorist chain.
[/quote]

All the palestinians and Israelis need is a lock-in at the rec. center. I mean, come on.

[quote author=NuLL link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51316 date=1080098307]
I believe the problem stems from a young age , ive seen news reports where children (Palestinian) where interviewed , and said they would glady give there lives for the "cause"

Excuse me but WTF is the "cause"

Who is to blame for that? i believe 2 key factors are at blame

(A) Parents? Like come on , last time i came home with a RPG Lanucher my mother grounded me for like 6 years? These kids on the other hand are encouraged to take up arms? why?

(B) Government? this is where the parents get it from , and they pass it on to there children and so forth. 1 big terrorist chain.
[/quote]

Perhaps you'd understand more if you actually lived there? It's hard for Americans to understand why foreigners act the way they do. Americans are so caught up in the "us Americans are right in our ways and customs" notion to the point where what everyone else does is "wrong."

[quote author=Zakath link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51308 date=1080097323]
[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51272 date=1080091040]Hate America, hate Israel, hate freedom, viva socialism.[/quote]

Have you ever studied socialism? You couldn't really get more free than in a true socialist state. The concept is rather admirable. The problem, of course, lies in the fact that it's completely impossible to implement in a fair and honest fashion (numerous real-world failures attest to this).
[/quote]

Many tribal societies have implemented a form of socialism, namely communism. It is possible, but I think we're to indulged in the idea of property that it will be hard to implement a form of socialism.

[quote author=dxoigmn link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51340 date=1080107303]
Perhaps you'd understand more if you actually lived there? It's hard for Americans to understand why foreigners act the way they do. Americans are so caught up in the "us Americans are right in our ways and customs" notion to the point where what everyone else does is "wrong."
[/quote]

I dont live in the United States

[quote author=NuLL link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51344 date=1080114151]
[quote author=dxoigmn link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51340 date=1080107303]
Perhaps you'd understand more if you actually lived there? It's hard for Americans to understand why foreigners act the way they do. Americans are so caught up in the "us Americans are right in our ways and customs" notion to the point where what everyone else does is "wrong."
[/quote]

I dont live in the United States
[/quote]

Well then, sorry for making that assumption. But I still think you exhibit those qualities I have described from what I see in Americans.

Thats because i am a western pig dog , just like them.

[quote author=Maddox link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51337 date=1080105384]
All the palestinians and Israelis need is a lock-in at the rec. center. I mean, come on.
[/quote]
Is you for real, man?!

(+1i)

[quote author=Noodlez link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51266 date=1080090562]
I like it how when Israel kills one Palestinian, it makes frontpage news, when an Arab goes into the middle of public place with a bomb strapped onto the chest taking out 200+ Israelies, it make's the 4th page.

Sure, that gimp on a wheel chair couldn't escape the 5 missiles launched at him, but atleast none of them killed civilians. Arabs simply hate all Israelies. Israelies only hate the ones who cause trouble (all of The Hammas). As well as anyone willing to strap a bomb to their chest and take a bus full of school kids out.
[/quote]

What are the death counts for either side?

[quote author=dxoigmn link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51340 date=1080107303]
Perhaps you'd understand more if you actually lived there? It's hard for Americans to understand why foreigners act the way they do. Americans are so caught up in the "us Americans are right in our ways and customs" notion to the point where what everyone else does is "wrong."

Well then, sorry for making that assumption. But I still think you exhibit those qualities I have described from what I see in Americans.
[/quote]

There is a difference between having pride in your country and believing everyone else is wrong. It is amazing the US is the only country that has such a sense of national pride, and yet that makes others hate us so much. May I ask what country you live in? If it is not the US I don't see how you can make your assumptions.

Last time I checked the US was one of the most, if not the most, diverse country in the world. This leads to many different cultures and customs...

Edit: Fixed quote tags

If your talking to me then i live in Australia , and no where in this topic have i ever called anybody wrong.

And my assumptions are based on what I see on the media , and what I make of it (of course the media is NEVER correct). But i know enought of the situation to form an oppinion for myself , as i belief everyone else here has.

[quote author=NuLL link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51562 date=1080183504]
If your talking to me then i live in Australia , and no where in this topic have i ever called anybody wrong.

And my assumptions are based on what I see on the media , and what I make of it (of course the media is NEVER correct). But i know enought of the situation to form an oppinion for myself , as i belief everyone else here has.
[/quote]

Plase look at who I quoted... I am talking to dxoigmn. Also, I never said you can't form an opinion.

Edit: Spelling

I asked because , i said "Im not from the United States" , then u qouted that and also asked "So what country are you from" , just a small misjudgement , many apologys

[quote author=NuLL link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51564 date=1080183831]
I asked because , i said "Im not from the United States" , then u qouted that and also asked "So what country are you from" , just a small misjudgement , many apologys
[/quote]

I quoted everything dxoigmn said, and it contained a post of yours. I fixed my quote tags, so I am sorry for any confusion that may have caused.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51548 date=1080180424]
[quote author=dxoigmn link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51340 date=1080107303]
Perhaps you'd understand more if you actually lived there? It's hard for Americans to understand why foreigners act the way they do. Americans are so caught up in the "us Americans are right in our ways and customs" notion to the point where what everyone else does is "wrong."

Well then, sorry for making that assumption. But I still think you exhibit those qualities I have described from what I see in Americans.
[/quote]

There is a difference between having pride in your country and believing everyone else is wrong. It is amazing the US is the only country that has such a sense of national pride, and yet that makes others hate us so much. May I ask what country you live in? If it is not the US I don't see how you can make your assumptions.

Last time I checked the US was one of the most, if not the most, diverse country in the world. This leads to many different cultures and customs...

Edit: Fixed quote tags
[/quote]

I live in the US...in Los Angeles, California and a lot of people that I've come across are that way. They may not consciously make that choice, but in they way they talk and carry themselves they do. Of course, this isn't everyone in the US but a lot of Americans are this way, atleast where I am from. I think this is a direct result of pride, since people love to twist it and use it when necessary. Now my question, how can you say "the US is the only country that has such a sense of national pride"?

[quote author=dxoigmn link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51573 date=1080186290]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51548 date=1080180424]
[quote author=dxoigmn link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51340 date=1080107303]
Perhaps you'd understand more if you actually lived there? It's hard for Americans to understand why foreigners act the way they do. Americans are so caught up in the "us Americans are right in our ways and customs" notion to the point where what everyone else does is "wrong."

Well then, sorry for making that assumption. But I still think you exhibit those qualities I have described from what I see in Americans.
[/quote]

There is a difference between having pride in your country and believing everyone else is wrong. It is amazing the US is the only country that has such a sense of national pride, and yet that makes others hate us so much. May I ask what country you live in? If it is not the US I don't see how you can make your assumptions.

Last time I checked the US was one of the most, if not the most, diverse country in the world. This leads to many different cultures and customs...

Edit: Fixed quote tags
[/quote]

I live in the US...in Los Angeles, California and a lot of people that I've come across are that way. They may not consciously make that choice, but in they way they talk and carry themselves they do. Of course, this isn't everyone in the US but a lot of Americans are this way, atleast where I am from. I think this is a direct result of pride, since people love to twist it and use it when necessary. Now my question, how can you say "the US is the only country that has such a sense of national pride"?
[/quote]

Simple, we're the only country in the world hated because how we are. We are the only country that unites as one to solve not only our problems, but the worlds. Now take that as you will, but I don't think freedom is such a bad thing to give people. Keep in mind I am not defending all the wrong we have done, but I am defending the idea our country was built on. Don't confuse pride with arrogance. Now when I say that I am not talking about the average person out there, but it's not just the US that is populated with ignorant people. Plenty of threads on this forum alone will prove that.

Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of countries out there I like, but let's think about it. In 230 years we have made the US what it is today. What about the other countries out there that have been around for centuries?

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51548 date=1080180424]
Last time I checked the US was one of the most, if not the most, diverse country in the world. This leads to many different cultures and customs...
[/quote]
Welcome to Canada. My school consists of about 1/3th brown people, 4/9th asian, 4/9th white, and 1/9th black. My friend's school consists of about 1/3 asian, 1/3 white, 1/3 black. A school about an hour from us consists of 1/4 black, 1/4 asian, 1/4 white, 1/4 brown. In the town 20minutes from my house the school is about 1/2 black, 1/4 white and 1/4 brown.

I don't think you can get much more diverse than that. The same apparently goes with alberta, quebec, nova scotia and manitoba, I know who live in all those places and talk to them regularly.

My school consists of 7/8 mexicans (belive it or not, they're still called a minority, despite the fact that they consist of 52% of the California population). The rest is .25/8 Black .25/8 Asian .25/8 Armenian .25/8 White

Provinciality sucks, no matter who is doing it. I suggest some of you travel before spouting that you know what America is like, or how the "rest of the world" is or thinks.

From my travels, everyone is mostly the same everywhere.

(Everyone is just looking to get drunk and get laid, and hopefully without working for it.)

[quote author=j0k3r link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51604 date=1080218776]
Welcome to Canada. My school consists of about 1/3th brown people, 4/9th asian, 4/9th white, and 1/9th black. My friend's school consists of about 1/3 asian, 1/3 white, 1/3 black. A school about an hour from us consists of 1/4 black, 1/4 asian, 1/4 white, 1/4 brown. In the town 20minutes from my house the school is about 1/2 black, 1/4 white and 1/4 brown.

I don't think you can get much more diverse than that. The same apparently goes with alberta, quebec, nova scotia and manitoba, I know who live in all those places and talk to them regularly.
[/quote]

Last time I checked the US was one of the most, if not the most, diverse country in the world. This leads to many different cultures and customs...

Please look at the bold type...

I was not trying to point out how people act in other countries I was defending my nationality.

70% Asian, 20% White, and 10% other at my school.

[quote author=Noodlez link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51613 date=1080227310]
My school consists of 7/8 mexicans (belive it or not, they're still called a minority, despite the fact that they consist of 52% of the California population). The rest is .25/8 Black .25/8 Asian .25/8 Armenian .25/8 White
[/quote]
Ah tuberload, I thought you were implying the most.

I didn't bother with sub-cultures, the list would go on forever...

[quote author=j0k3r link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51667 date=1080254679]
[quote author=Noodlez link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51613 date=1080227310]
My school consists of 7/8 mexicans (belive it or not, they're still called a minority, despite the fact that they consist of 52% of the California population). The rest is .25/8 Black .25/8 Asian .25/8 Armenian .25/8 White
[/quote]
Ah tuberload, I thought you were implying the most.

I didn't bother with sub-cultures, the list would go on forever...
[/quote]

You're right, let's just forget about everyone else and just focus on the majority. Anyways that has nothing to do with the original topic.

[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=15#msg51329 date=1080099871]
[quote author=Zakath link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51308 date=1080097323]
[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51272 date=1080091040]Bravo. Of course, that's the liberal media (I hope I don't *offend* anyone here) bias. Hate America, hate Israel, hate freedom, viva socialism.[/quote]

Have you ever studied socialism? You couldn't really get more free than in a true socialist state. The concept is rather admirable. The problem, of course, lies in the fact that it's completely impossible to implement in a fair and honest fashion (numerous real-world failures attest to this).
[/quote]

Yes, I have studied it in-depth (a political science major I am). Theoretically, you are correct. However, do you see humans changing so that it will be so in practice?
[/quote]
I just have to point out that it is the conservative media that does this, since liberals are pro-isreal. Additionally, you are confusing Socialism with Communism. Socialism is doesnt require implementation in an entirely fare and honest way. Most of Europe today is socialist. Prime examples are Sweden, and Denmark. Socialists just won a huge election in Spain, so Spain is now a socialist country. To my knowledge, although many people dislike socialism, it has not been a failure. My view is a little biased, since I am very liberal, maybe even a socialist.

On the topic, being Jewish, I feel that killing the leader of Hamas was an excellent decision. His organization killed and continues to kill hundreds of innocent people. Think about how much we would give now to have gone back in time and assasinated Osama Bin-Laden. My best friend's father would still be alive today, along with my skyline.

[quote author=DaRk-FeAnOr link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51755 date=1080281153]
On the topic, being Jewish, I feel that killing the leader of Hamas was an excellent decision. His organization killed and continues to kill hundreds of innocent people. Think about how much we would give now to have gone back in time and assasinated Osama Bin-Laden. My best friend's father would still be alive today, along with my skyline.
[/quote]

And murder is the answer? Do you want to think about how many palestinians would have been alive today if someone had killed Ariel Sharon earlier? Or if all jews had simply been finished off when the Nazis had the chance?

I am talking about killing one person, not six million. Why does anybody have to die? It is a palestinians own fault if he decides to loose his life through suicide bombing, or being in the military, as stated in the Geneva convention (international wartime law). If the palestine would just accept one of the MANY offered fair peace settlements, then everybody would be fine. They do not want to, as dictated by their "heart, toungue, hand, sword" means of spreading the religion. Killing this one person probably saved many lives and was therefore worth it. The leader of hamas was a war criminal, guilty of genocide and deserved to die.

One person - six million - no big difference. We all die some time.

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51898 date=1080337057]
One person - six million - no big difference. We all die some time.
[/quote]

So does that mean you agree with genocide?

9/11 was a miracle of God

Just curious what people think of this.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51902 date=1080338140]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51898 date=1080337057]
One person - six million - no big difference. We all die some time.
[/quote]

So does that mean you agree with genocide?
[/quote]

I think perhaps Adron just maybe might have been cynical when making that comment....

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51902 date=1080338140]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51898 date=1080337057]
One person - six million - no big difference. We all die some time.
[/quote]

So does that mean you agree with genocide?
[/quote]

Genocide and murder are two bad things. If you take the standpoint that bad things are ok if they make the world a better place, you might as well consider both of them.

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51930 date=1080342586]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51902 date=1080338140]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51898 date=1080337057]
One person - six million - no big difference. We all die some time.
[/quote]

So does that mean you agree with genocide?
[/quote]

Genocide and murder are two bad things. If you take the standpoint that bad things are ok if they make the world a better place, you might as well consider both of them.

[/quote]

That is a very good reason! I guess some people can just accept a single murder better that genocide.

Adition: [quote]I think perhaps Adron just maybe might have been cynical when making that comment....[/quote]

I was just curious about his reasoning behind his comment... Thank you for your input though, it's always welcome. :P

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51930 date=1080342586]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51902 date=1080338140]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51898 date=1080337057]
One person - six million - no big difference. We all die some time.
[/quote]

So does that mean you agree with genocide?
[/quote]

Genocide and murder are two bad things. If you take the standpoint that bad things are ok if they make the world a better place, you might as well consider both of them.

[/quote]

Interesting note, Adron.... German Nazis kill > 12mil people between 1933 and 1945, and we are outraged. We drop bombs killing millions in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing roughly 200,000 and nobody blinks an eye.

Was it because we did something that would make the world a better place? Or was it because our numbers were so considerably less?

[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51939 date=1080343706]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51930 date=1080342586]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51902 date=1080338140]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=30#msg51898 date=1080337057]
One person - six million - no big difference. We all die some time.
[/quote]

So does that mean you agree with genocide?
[/quote]

Genocide and murder are two bad things. If you take the standpoint that bad things are ok if they make the world a better place, you might as well consider both of them.

[/quote]

Interesting note, Adron.... German Nazis kill > 12mil people between 1933 and 1945, and we are outraged. We drop bombs killing millions in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing roughly 200,000 and nobody blinks an eye.

Was it because we did something that would make the world a better place? Or was it because our numbers were so considerably less?
[/quote]

It was the first. The government, under Harry Truman, made a decision to use atomic weapons againts Japan in interest of ending the war without a massively bloody homeland Japanese invasion. Such an invasion would result in a loss of life catastrophically greater than the damage that they anticipated the atomic bomb would do. The Japanese people, being of a society based on honor, would most rather die than be conquered, as seen in Kamakazee fighters, which were only used at the very end of the war. Once the atomic bombs were used, the Japanese government was forced to surrender, unable ot fight such an extreme display of force. Keep in mind, that these atomic bombs were not "H Bombs" aka nukes. They were much less powerfull, but still, the government underestimated their potency, resulting in more civilian life loss than expected.

Hitler killed WAYYYYY more than 200,000 people, and it was not for a good cause. He was a sicko attemping to rid the world of Jews, because he was angry that he was gay. He blamed the problems of Germany on the Jews and commited genocide.

A better arguement would be that nobody blinks an eye at Stalin, who killed (I believe) 10 million people in the attempt of colectivization alone (when he moved the peasents onto collective farms), while they do to Hitler. Stalin, however, did not discriminate, he just killed everybody and the government did not know about it at the time, since everything was falsified.

[quote author=DaRk-FeAnOr link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51967 date=1080354253]
Hitler killed WAYYYYY more than 200,000 people, and it was not for a good cause. He was a sicko attemping to rid the world of Jews, because he was angry that he was gay. He blamed the problems of Germany on the Jews and commited genocide.[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not.. Hitler used hate against Jews as a motivating force to rally otherwise decent people to an indecent cause. Whether he actually believed Jews were at fault is probably debatable. He knew that your typical aryan german were sufficiently anti-semitic to allow him to rally "his kind" politically behind his power struggle.

His writings (http://www.h-net.org/~german/gtext/kaiserreich/hitler2.html) about Jews read like well formed analytical arguments, not hate doctrine which you might expect from a zealot.

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg52007 date=1080366748]
[quote author=DaRk-FeAnOr link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51967 date=1080354253]
Hitler killed WAYYYYY more than 200,000 people, and it was not for a good cause. He was a sicko attemping to rid the world of Jews, because he was angry that he was gay. He blamed the problems of Germany on the Jews and commited genocide.[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not.. Hitler used hate against Jews as a motivating force to rally otherwise decent people to an indecent cause. Whether he actually believed Jews were at fault is probably debatable. He knew that your typical aryan german were sufficiently anti-semitic to allow him to rally "his kind" politically behind his power struggle.

His writings (http://www.h-net.org/~german/gtext/kaiserreich/hitler2.html) about Jews read like well formed analytical arguments, not hate doctrine which you might expect from a zealot.
[/quote]

Maybe he was an insane genius? Would explain how he could rally a country to fulfill his insane desires.

I read his book "Mien kampf," and it sounded as if he believed it. If he liked Jews, why would he kill 6 million of them?

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51935 date=1080343036]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51930 date=1080342586]
Genocide and murder are two bad things. If you take the standpoint that bad things are ok if they make the world a better place, you might as well consider both of them.

[/quote]

That is a very good reason! I guess some people can just accept a single murder better that genocide.
[/quote]

Well, think for a while about premeditated murder, where you've considered it and decided to do it - not things that happen in the heat of a fight... Can you accept the idea of killing people?

I think the distance from murder to genocide is shorter than the distance from good person to murderer. Kill one, get used to the feeling, kill two more, feel comfortable, kill a hundred, kill a population...

If you accept that you can kill someone, that their value isn't so unique, there's nothing to stop you from killing some more. If a human life isn't worth preserving, what would make a million human lives worth preserving? Humans do reproduce, just like any animal. Most people don't cry over exterminating ants or other quick-reproducing pests.

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg52034 date=1080389693]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51935 date=1080343036]
[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg51930 date=1080342586]
Genocide and murder are two bad things. If you take the standpoint that bad things are ok if they make the world a better place, you might as well consider both of them.

[/quote]

That is a very good reason! I guess some people can just accept a single murder better that genocide.
[/quote]

Well, think for a while about premeditated murder, where you've considered it and decided to do it - not things that happen in the heat of a fight... Can you accept the idea of killing people?

I think the distance from murder to genocide is shorter than the distance from good person to murderer. Kill one, get used to the feeling, kill two more, feel comfortable, kill a hundred, kill a population...

If you accept that you can kill someone, that their value isn't so unique, there's nothing to stop you from killing some more. If a human life isn't worth preserving, what would make a million human lives worth preserving? Humans do reproduce, just like any animal. Most people don't cry over exterminating ants or other quick-reproducing pests.

[/quote]

I agree with you completely. I just like to here the logic behind your reasoning.

[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51272 date=1080091040]
[quote author=Noodlez link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=0#msg51266 date=1080090562]
I like it how when Israel kills one Palestinian, it makes frontpage news, when an Arab goes into the middle of public place with a bomb strapped onto the chest taking out 200+ Israelies, it make's the 4th page.[/quote]

Bravo. Of course, that's the liberal media (I hope I don't *offend* anyone here) bias. Hate America, hate Israel, hate freedom, viva socialism.
[/quote]

(This is if you live in America)
You obviously don't value your freedom enough; imagine living in a country like Saudia Arabia or North Korea. You get recruited into the army at age 18 regardless of your ambitions. You probably wouldn't have the chance to major in Political Science living in an inferior country now would you?

[quote author=Tron link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg52180 date=1080473422]
You obviously don't value your freedom enough; imagine living in a country like Saudia Arabia or North Korea. You get recruited into the army at age 18 regardless of your ambitions. [/quote]
Hmm? This happens in Israel as well.
What does it have to do with ambitions? It's only for a few years, and if you're truly ambitious, you'll get a job where your potential isn't wasted.

The United States used to be the same way as well.

[quote author=DaRk-FeAnOr link=board=2;threadid=5946;start=45#msg52223 date=1080500765]
The United States used to be the same way as well.
[/quote]

Are you talking about getting recruited regardless(draft), or that you can't make it?