TO: President George W. Bush,

[quote]Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide resigned and left his embattled nation today "to prevent bloodshed," according to a statement read by the prime minister. Gunfire could be heard in the nation's capital after Aristide's departure to an unknown destination. The Pentagon was considering a rapid deployment of several hundred U.S. Marines to Haiti, Bush administration officials told CNN.[/quote]

Why the hell can't we let the Haitian people determine their own destiny? What, are we going to police them and install another puppet government? Do we value self determination, or not? Bush, you low-brow moron, these people have just earned their independence through the cost of their own blood. Now let them be self-governed!

You're certainly old enough to remember us doing the same thing back in the 18th century!

Sincerely,
Grok

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46706 date=1078071576]
TO: President George W. Bush,


Why the hell can't we let the Haitian people determine their own destiny?
[/quote]

Because they don't have a voice in their country. It's constantly being muffled and drowned out by the different rival factions constantly trying to fish out power. Aristide was elected; and now the rebel warlords managed to get him to leave the country. If he would've stayed, there would be a huge civil-war, then peacekeepers would come, and the situation would be atleast somewhat quelled. If it returns to civilwar, it could turn into (God-forbid) Somalia II, where no leader = terrible bloodshed from rampant factional warfare.

In short, you have too much faith in impoverished people being able to overcome the influence of power-hungry rebels. The old government was "corrupt". But I believe that was better than plunging the country into another civil war where the people would remain hungry and impoverished; but this time, more will die from war.

Im not American but Bush is a moron. Hes got to many problems in his country to be worrying about others. Its obvioues from the attacks it suffers.

[quote author=The-Rabid-Lord link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46717 date=1078077808]
Im not American but Bush is a moron. Hes got to many problems in his country to be worrying about others. Its obvioues from the attacks it suffers.
[/quote]

A moron who can't spell or use punctuation correctly criticizing a world leader....

[quote author=Myndfyre link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46728 date=1078080391]
A moron who can't spell or use punctuation correctly criticizing a world leader....
[/quote]

Well, if someone who can't even spell or use punctuation correctly can see that Bush is a moron, it's got to be rather obvious...

Most crackheads can't spell or use punctuation correctly either, and they often see giant insects and gun-toting vampires hiding under their beds. Are we to assume such things exist as well?

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46706 date=1078071576]
Why the hell can't we let the Haitian people determine their own destiny? What, are we going to police them and install another puppet government?[/quote]

I suppose you said the same thing in 1994 when Clinton began "Operation Restore Democracy?"

[quote author=Naem link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46739 date=1078083255]
I suppose you said the same thing in 1994 when Clinton began "Operation Restore Democracy?"
[/quote]

Actually, Grok probably did say that. I get from reading his posts that he's a bit of a civil libertarian. :)

Myndfyre is correct, I have realized I am a libertarian.

Now if Bush gave a damn about the Haitian people, he would not have intercepted the boatloads of people fleeing the violence. Instead, he issued a warning against people fleeing violence in their country. His words!

Bringing a large force of marines into Haiti is therefore not because Bush has any great love for those people, or even has their health and welfare in mind. So why then? To make sure he can have control to install a government that will kiss our butts.

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46750 date=1078084240]
Bringing a large force of marines into Haiti is therefore not because Bush has any great love for those people, or even has their health and welfare in mind. So why then? To make sure he can have control to install a government that will kiss our butts.
[/quote]

So what if the government will kiss our butts? Atleast that government will benefit from American support; hence perhaps being able to improve the quality of life of its people as much as possible. Better that than a government that hates America, all the while slaughtering it's own people in the name of whatever bloodthirsty lunatic the majority of combatants support at the time.

Ah yes, the only two possibilities are a pro-American Haiti, or a government that slaughters their own people. The Haitian people are too stupid to do anything else.

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46755 date=1078088861]
Ah yes, the only two possibilities are a pro-American Haiti, or a government that slaughters their own people.
[/quote]

Ok, then employing your mastery of foreign politics, please recommend a third variant.

[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46757 date=1078090006]
[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46755 date=1078088861]
Ah yes, the only two possibilities are a pro-American Haiti, or a government that slaughters their own people.
[/quote]

Ok, then employing your mastery of foreign politics, please recommend a third variant.
[/quote]

An enlightened dictatorship that brings tremendous scientific and economic advances to its people and within 10 years becomes the new world power, importing Americans as cheap workers.

Sounds good to me.

Why not just take every country thats having problems and turn them into a new state of America. Then it won't matter if they are living in the streets and killing each other and the government can just move on to another country.

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46759 date=1078091118]
[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46757 date=1078090006]
[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46755 date=1078088861]
Ah yes, the only two possibilities are a pro-American Haiti, or a government that slaughters their own people.
[/quote]

Ok, then employing your mastery of foreign politics, please recommend a third variant.
[/quote]

An enlightened dictatorship that brings tremendous scientific and economic advances to its people and within 10 years becomes the new world power, importing Americans as cheap workers.
[/quote]

Ah, but the emergency of a solitary dictator would require atleast 5 more years of constant warring (i.e.: Castro in Cuba) until one such dictator would emerge above his competition, and isn't the bloodshed that would result something that the world is trying to prevent in the first place?

[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46757 date=1078090006]
[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46755 date=1078088861]
Ah yes, the only two possibilities are a pro-American Haiti, or a government that slaughters their own people.
[/quote]

Ok, then employing your mastery of foreign politics, please recommend a third variant.
[/quote]

They could become French.


If "bloodshed" were something to avoid in and of itself, the USA would not have killed 125000 Iraqi soldiers in the Gulf War. After all, they had already occupied Kuwait.

Just for the record, you liberals suck.

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46806 date=1078101855]
[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46757 date=1078090006]
[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46755 date=1078088861]
Ah yes, the only two possibilities are a pro-American Haiti, or a government that slaughters their own people.
[/quote]

Ok, then employing your mastery of foreign politics, please recommend a third variant.
[/quote]

If "bloodshed" were something to avoid in and of itself, the USA would not have killed 125000 Iraqi soldiers in the Gulf War.
[/quote]

I don't believe killing 125,000 (that number is atleast slightly distorted) active military personnel in engagement of warfare is the same thing as the senseless slaughter of millions of hungry and unarmed men, women, and children. We had to kill millions of German soldiers; but it had to be done. We were able to save millions upon millions more from suffering and death.

[quote author=Hazard link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46821 date=1078103147]
Just for the record, you liberals suck.
[/quote]

Who are the liberals who posted here? I don't see a one.

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46835 date=1078106804]
[quote author=Hazard link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46821 date=1078103147]
Just for the record, you liberals suck.
[/quote]

Who are the liberals who posted here? I don't see a one.
[/quote]

I was adding such a comment in preparation for the long due arrival of a liberal.

[quote author=Hazard link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46843 date=1078107333]
[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46835 date=1078106804]
[quote author=Hazard link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46821 date=1078103147]
Just for the record, you liberals suck.
[/quote]

Who are the liberals who posted here? I don't see a one.
[/quote]

I was adding such a comment in preparation for the long due arrival of a liberal.
[/quote]

Hehe, well from your icon quote, "I promote civil disobedience", you would seem the most likely liberal.

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46847 date=1078107481]
[quote author=Hazard link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46843 date=1078107333]
[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46835 date=1078106804]
[quote author=Hazard link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46821 date=1078103147]
Just for the record, you liberals suck.
[/quote]

Who are the liberals who posted here? I don't see a one.
[/quote]

I was adding such a comment in preparation for the long due arrival of a liberal.
[/quote]

Hehe, well from your icon quote, "I promote civil disobedience", you would seem the most likely liberal.
[/quote]

It's all relative.

[Edit]How about my NEW icon quote?[/Edit]

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46835 date=1078106804]
[quote author=Hazard link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46821 date=1078103147]
Just for the record, you liberals suck.
[/quote]

Who are the liberals who posted here? I don't see a one.
[/quote]

[code]
if ((Libertarian == Lockean) && (Lockean == Classical_Liberal) && (grok->GetIdeology() == Libertarian))
cout << "Grok is a Liberal";
[/code]

[code]
Grok is a Liberal
[/code]

;-)

[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46735 date=1078082533]
Most crackheads can't spell or use punctuation correctly either, and they often see giant insects and gun-toting vampires hiding under their beds. Are we to assume such things exist as well?
[/quote]
Actually im failing English so i couldnt care less if i can spell or use punctuation.

[quote author=The-Rabid-Lord link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46924 date=1078161272]
[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46735 date=1078082533]
Most crackheads can't spell or use punctuation correctly either, and they often see giant insects and gun-toting vampires hiding under their beds. Are we to assume such things exist as well?
[/quote]
Actually im failing English so i couldnt care less if i can spell or use punctuation.
[/quote]

I would care, if I were failing English. I might not fail if that was the case. :p

(Note: yes I know post times are close, TRL posted in between the time that I got mine up and I returned to the forum topic list)

[quote author=The-Rabid-Lord link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=15#msg46924 date=1078161272]
[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=5511;start=0#msg46735 date=1078082533]
Most crackheads can't spell or use punctuation correctly either, and they often see giant insects and gun-toting vampires hiding under their beds. Are we to assume such things exist as well?
[/quote]
Actually im failing English so i couldnt care less if i can spell or use punctuation.
[/quote]

If I get a ticket for speeding, I would tell the Police Officer that I'm failing math, so I can't read my speedometer.