I was watching the 6:00 world new last week. I saw a clip of a few troops in afghanistan on the top of a building in a makeshift bunker, as this troop was firing a 50 cal. and M16, at some iraqies... It dawned on me. How fun would that be? I got so fired up, more so than I think most people do. I have many times thought I wanted to go into the marines, serve my country, kill a few people that could potentially ruin my kids future in another attack. My question is... how many people here were in the armed forces? Pros/cons of first hand experience... please feel free to share... I am still considering doing this.

It's much more relaxing to just start up Ghost Recon or some similar game.

What about the kids whose fathers you would kill, you're ruining their lives in your attack. War is horribly hypocritical in that sense.

It makes sense that this is in the fun forum :P

[quote author=Adron link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=0#msg44511 date=1076896508]
It's much more relaxing to just start up Ghost Recon or some similar game.
[/quote]

Download Canadians Operations 2, mod for GR. It's OK it seems, except for the heavy use of red.

Iago, thank god you do not live in america.

[quote author=jigsaw link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=0#msg44530 date=1076900341]
Iago, thank god you do not live in america.
[/quote]

It's funny, I say the same thing.

im in the military i think its a pretty sweet deal. im in the navy not the marines so i cant tell u a whole lot about the marines. i know if u get deployed its pretty much gonna suck. sleep in a hole in the ground eatin shittin meals stuff like that. but then again u get to blow shit up. but u could also get blown up...if you wanna join the military to die for ur country you got the wrong idea...the idea is to make the other poor bastard die for his.

also if they were in afghanistan they werent shootin at iraqies... :P

Ah general patton quote I like that... I dont want to die, I want to take out my anger on every country that I think is involved... I know a few people whom died in Sep. 11. Changed my life.

Btw, Iago, too liberal for my blood.

I am not in the army but my cousin is. He is a marine. He got shipped out a few months back. He broke a leg so he is back here for a bit. He seems to like it but its alot of work. The training is hard. The hardest part of all he says is being in the enemies country waiting for an attack.

I dont know if i would join the army. I thought about it but never came up with an answer.

Currently I have about 4 close friends that are all enlisted, 2 in the marines, 1 in the army, and 1 in the navy. Though all of them have their physical points, the marine core would be the one you'd want, if you wanted to see action the quickest, and if in good shape, the one that will be the most challenging. As for the whole full metal jacket point of view during boot camp, that's almost entirely true, they repeat the plege everynight (this is my gun there are many like it, but this is mine, etc etc.) they name it, and they sleep with it everynight, my bud that just returned for 10 day leave spoke of some of the physical stuff they did, and if your up to it (which I would think so, since Jigsaw seems to be in great shape owning a gym and all) I think it would build you one hell of an experience, I may seem bias'd towards which branch, but I grew up with Marine Core all around me, everyone on my fathers side has served in the core, a few of em even died for it.

As soon as some legal restrictions are lifted, I plan on joining the Marines. I'm going in as a rifelman. My ultimate goal is to become a Force Recon Marine.

If you prefer writing bots with ................ then join ...

Visual Basic Bot Studio ........... Army
VB with CSB ............... Marines
Visual Basic using BNLS ............. Navy
C/C++ with BNLS ........ Air Force
ASM/C without BNLS ........... go to college, you're not a moron.

P.S. Python/Java/etc .... please join Al Queeda.

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=0#msg44631 date=1076966460]
If you prefer writing bots with ................ then join ...

Visual Basic Bot Studio ........... Army
VB with CSB ............... Marines
Visual Basic using BNLS ............. Navy
C/C++ with BNLS ........ Air Force
ASM/C without BNLS ........... go to college, you're not a moron.

P.S. Python/Java/etc .... please join Al Queeda.
[/quote]

Lol, now that you put it that way I don't think I will join the Marines... Looks like I'm headed for Al Queeda. ;D I also plan on going to college; I just have other reasons for joining the service. I like to think it has nothing to do with being a moron, but hey, I could be wrong.

Either airforce or al queeda for me. It's all good :)

What about C/C++ w/o BNLS? Royal Air Force? :P

Please note that I said join Al Queeda so the Marines can hunt you down and imprison you for life.

Also, we assumed you didn't mean that people who join the services are morons (because one could derive such meaning from your post).

BTW, I think it kinda sucks that whenever people discuss the various military service branches, they always manage to miss the Coast Guard; perhaps the least known or remembered branch. People should realize that their job is quite important as well.

I thought the Coast Guard was a kind of police force, not a military force.

It's a way to serve your country, and was supposed to keep you from having to go active duty during war times. I think it is an excellent branch, because I do not think everyone is cut out for the active military careers, but it allows them to serve their country. Bush changed all that...

actually the coast guard see's quit a bit of action, they do a lot of counter drug ops and stuff like that. i suppose that maybe ppl dont mention it is b/c during a time of war the coast guard falls under the Navy, just like the marines are actually a branch of the navy. u better have some big balls to join the coast guard, just imagin some 40 foot waves in their tiny ass ships

Coast Guard is an armed service of the Department of Transportation. It is not a military force under the Pentagon.

And yes I said don't join the military unless you're a moron. I should've said unless there's no hope in your life for anything seemingly normal including a lucrative life of crime, don't join the military as an enlisted person. Do ANYTHING else, including living off the mold that grows in people's garbage cans who don't bother to wash them every few months.

Better?

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44690 date=1076988932]
And yes I said don't join the military unless you're a moron. I should've said unless there's no hope in your life for anything seemingly normal including a lucrative life of crime, don't join the military as an enlisted person. Do ANYTHING else, including living off the mold that grows in people's garbage cans who don't bother to wash them every few months.

Better?
[/quote]

I second that.

Armies should be used to defend yourself when being under attack, not the other way around. Unfortunately, this is not the case most of the time. You shouldn't go risk your life for something stupid.

[quote author=Arsenic link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44709 date=1076998955]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44690 date=1076988932]
And yes I said don't join the military unless you're a moron. I should've said unless there's no hope in your life for anything seemingly normal including a lucrative life of crime, don't join the military as an enlisted person. Do ANYTHING else, including living off the mold that grows in people's garbage cans who don't bother to wash them every few months.

Better?
[/quote]

I second that.

Armies should be used to defend yourself when being under attack, not the other way around. Unfortunately, this is not the case most of the time. You shouldn't go risk your life for something stupid.
[/quote]

I personally don't think risking my life so my friends and family can continue to live free is a stupid thing... Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time I checked are freedoms come at a cost. Now I am not saying all the wars we participate in are necessary or just, but I have nothing but respect for the people who serve our country. I also strongly disagree with Grok's opinions, but hey, that’s really all that this thread is about. :) I personally would rather join the service, and feel like I accomplished something than live off of mold, but that's me. Damn it, if my life is ever made into a book I want someone to read it!

I don't see why someone couldn't go serve their time, then go to college on the government’s expense. Possibly retire at 40, and do whatever you want for the rest of your life. To me that isn't that bad of a life...

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44710 date=1076999886]Now I am not saying all the wars we participate in are necessary or just, [/quote]

You just said it, "not necessary". Then, why go? Patriotism?

This just shows how much a brain washed culture America is. But it's not your fault, you've been faced to this since the very first years of school, where books would show you how great a country you are, all the things you have done, the wars you have won, and how everyone else was wrong.

I don't support terrorism. I have respect for soldiers' devotion, but not for their wit. This war was stupid as far as I'm concerned.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44710 date=1076999886]Damn it, if my life is ever made into a book I want someone to read it![/quote]

There's a lot of books I wish would have never been written.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44710 date=1076999886]I don't see why someone couldn't go serve their time, then go to college on the government’s expense. Possibly retire at 40, and do whatever you want for the rest of your life. To me that isn't that bad of a life...[/quote]

If you still live after, that is.

If I wanted to care about my kids and their future, I'd rather be a scientific and find a cure to AIDS and cancer.

Out of all that you said nothing about the cost of freedom... I acknowledged that not all of the wars we have participated in were necessary, but what about the ones that are...

I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either... I am a big fan of history, and along with that I understand when we have been right, and when we have been wrong. My wanting to join the service has nothing to do with wanting to be a part of the best country in the world that never does anything wrong.

What is their not to respect about a soldiers wit... Are you saying that are troops are not intelligent, resourceful, or clever?

The comment about my life being a book was meant to be humorous.

I could die tomorrow just walking down the street... If you are that scared of death, I agree with you, stay the hell away from the service. I also recommend that you isolate yourself from most of life’s experiences. I would feel a lot better about myself if I died fighting for something, than if I got shot because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hell I could go out eating a hotdog if I'm not careful.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44714 date=1077004926]I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either.[/quote]

Oh? Let's do a test. Do you pay individual income taxes? If so, why? If you say it's the law, show me. Now tell me you're not a zombie.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44710 date=1076999886]
[quote author=Arsenic link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44709 date=1076998955]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44690 date=1076988932]
And yes I said don't join the military unless you're a moron. I should've said unless there's no hope in your life for anything seemingly normal including a lucrative life of crime, don't join the military as an enlisted person. Do ANYTHING else, including living off the mold that grows in people's garbage cans who don't bother to wash them every few months.

Better?
[/quote]

I second that.

Armies should be used to defend yourself when being under attack, not the other way around. Unfortunately, this is not the case most of the time. You shouldn't go risk your life for something stupid.
[/quote]

I personally don't think risking my life so my friends and family can continue to live free is a stupid thing... Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time I checked are freedoms come at a cost. Now I am not saying all the wars we participate in are necessary or just, but I have nothing but respect for the people who serve our country. I also strongly disagree with Grok's opinions, but hey, that’s really all that this thread is about. :) I personally would rather join the service, and feel like I accomplished something than live off of mold, but that's me. Damn it, if my life is ever made into a book I want someone to read it!

I don't see why someone couldn't go serve their time, then go to college on the government’s expense. Possibly retire at 40, and do whatever you want for the rest of your life. To me that isn't that bad of a life...

[/quote]

That book thing is directory from their commercial *brainwash*

And was Saddam Hussein really threatening your freedom? How? As far as I can tell, he was maybe threatening the freedom of Kuwait, Iran, and other countries around there, but there was absolutely no possibility of him threatening the freedom of Western Europe, or The Americas.

[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44726 date=1077027130]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44710 date=1076999886]
[quote author=Arsenic link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44709 date=1076998955]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44690 date=1076988932]
And yes I said don't join the military unless you're a moron. I should've said unless there's no hope in your life for anything seemingly normal including a lucrative life of crime, don't join the military as an enlisted person. Do ANYTHING else, including living off the mold that grows in people's garbage cans who don't bother to wash them every few months.

Better?
[/quote]

I second that.

Armies should be used to defend yourself when being under attack, not the other way around. Unfortunately, this is not the case most of the time. You shouldn't go risk your life for something stupid.
[/quote]

I personally don't think risking my life so my friends and family can continue to live free is a stupid thing... Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time I checked are freedoms come at a cost. Now I am not saying all the wars we participate in are necessary or just, but I have nothing but respect for the people who serve our country. I also strongly disagree with Grok's opinions, but hey, that’s really all that this thread is about. :) I personally would rather join the service, and feel like I accomplished something than live off of mold, but that's me. Damn it, if my life is ever made into a book I want someone to read it!

I don't see why someone couldn't go serve their time, then go to college on the government’s expense. Possibly retire at 40, and do whatever you want for the rest of your life. To me that isn't that bad of a life...

[/quote]

That book thing is directory from their commercial *brainwash*

And was Saddam Hussein really threatening your freedom? How? As far as I can tell, he was maybe threatening the freedom of Kuwait, Iran, and other countries around there, but there was absolutely no possibility of him threatening the freedom of Western Europe, or The Americas.
[/quote]
Yea, we should have let him keep torturing his people for a few more years until he actually decided to get WMD or something.

[quote author=Hitmen link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44740 date=1077034681]
[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44726 date=1077027130]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44710 date=1076999886]
[quote author=Arsenic link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44709 date=1076998955]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44690 date=1076988932]
And yes I said don't join the military unless you're a moron. I should've said unless there's no hope in your life for anything seemingly normal including a lucrative life of crime, don't join the military as an enlisted person. Do ANYTHING else, including living off the mold that grows in people's garbage cans who don't bother to wash them every few months.

Better?
[/quote]

I second that.

Armies should be used to defend yourself when being under attack, not the other way around. Unfortunately, this is not the case most of the time. You shouldn't go risk your life for something stupid.
[/quote]

I personally don't think risking my life so my friends and family can continue to live free is a stupid thing... Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time I checked are freedoms come at a cost. Now I am not saying all the wars we participate in are necessary or just, but I have nothing but respect for the people who serve our country. I also strongly disagree with Grok's opinions, but hey, that’s really all that this thread is about. :) I personally would rather join the service, and feel like I accomplished something than live off of mold, but that's me. Damn it, if my life is ever made into a book I want someone to read it!

I don't see why someone couldn't go serve their time, then go to college on the government’s expense. Possibly retire at 40, and do whatever you want for the rest of your life. To me that isn't that bad of a life...

[/quote]

That book thing is directory from their commercial *brainwash*

And was Saddam Hussein really threatening your freedom? How? As far as I can tell, he was maybe threatening the freedom of Kuwait, Iran, and other countries around there, but there was absolutely no possibility of him threatening the freedom of Western Europe, or The Americas.
[/quote]
Yea, we should have let him keep torturing his people for a few more years until he actually decided to get WMD or something.
[/quote]

He neither had nor was developing WMD. And I thought we were talking about "risking my life so my friends and family can continue to live free". What about all the other places were people are suffering, all over africa, asian countries, other middle eastern countries, etc? We don't care about those, though, only the ones that we decide to attack are all of a sudden important.

Regardless, Saddam was a nutcase. Generally people suffering in africa or wherever aren't because the government is controled by some asshole dictator who tortures and kills people for fun, it's because of the lack of food, water and healthcare which we also try to deal with. But we cant' supply that for a whole continent.

[quote author=Hitmen link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44743 date=1077035386]
Regardless, Saddam was a nutcase. Generally people suffering in africa or wherever aren't because the government is controled by some asshole dictator who tortures and kills people for fun, it's because of the lack of food, water and healthcare which we also try to deal with. But we cant' supply that for a whole continent.
[/quote]

You'd be surprised how often that happens, you just don't hear about it. I used to have a friend who lived in Bach'rain (I probably spelled that wrong) who moved to canada, and he was telling me what a horrible place it (and India) was to live since 1% of the people have 99% of the money and power and the rest of the people die from lack of food/water/medicine. It's no different from Saddam.

[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44754 date=1077040800]
[quote author=Hitmen link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44743 date=1077035386]
Regardless, Saddam was a nutcase. Generally people suffering in africa or wherever aren't because the government is controled by some asshole dictator who tortures and kills people for fun, it's because of the lack of food, water and healthcare which we also try to deal with. But we cant' supply that for a whole continent.
[/quote]

You'd be surprised how often that happens, you just don't hear about it. I used to have a friend who lived in Bach'rain (I probably spelled that wrong) who moved to canada, and he was telling me what a horrible place it (and India) was to live since 1% of the people have 99% of the money and power and the rest of the people die from lack of food/water/medicine. It's no different from Saddam.
[/quote]

In the United States, where <1% of the people have >99% of the wealth. So? The bottom line is the poverty level, and fortunately, in the USA, only 25% of our population is in poverty. Yay! Aren't we great. </em></sarcasm>

I, personally, will be heading into NROTC when I go to college and when I graduate I hope to join either the Marine Corps or the Navy as an officer to either go active or enter the reserves. I would say go for it if its something you feel called to do. I know I am.

[quote author=Hitmen link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44743 date=1077035386]
Generally people suffering in africa or wherever aren't because the government is controled by some asshole dictator who tortures and kills people for fun, it's because of the lack of food, water and healthcare which we also try to deal with. But we cant' supply that for a whole continent.
[/quote]

As Iago said, there's a lot of places in the world where the same thing happens.

Noticed how Bush's speech drastically changed when US invaded Iraq and realized there weren't any WMD anywhere? "But, ...we're doing it for the freedom of Iraqi people!" Sure.... but what about every other countries where people are suffering from dictatorship, enslavement and poverty? Aren't you going to do something too?

No, Iraq is the "axis of evil", that kind of thing doesn't happen elsewhere.... give me a break. This is the art of disinformation my friend. Nazis thought there were doing the right thing too.

Only a very few wars meant really something. I tell you, I have more respect for doctors than soldiers. Those saving lifes deserve more credits than those taking ones in my book.

Good to know where your values are. Doctors making $250,000 +++ per year saving people's lives, but destroying their patients finances is more noble than soldiers saving lives while earning only $5/hour and getting shot at, tortured, and ridiculed by their own people back home.

From this point of view, you are right. Yet, it's not always the case.

A lot of those are working 20 hours a day to save people's life in urgency rooms. They are overloaded of work and overwhelmed, but they keep it up.

Not every doctor/nurse or anyone working in the medical department has an income of 250,000. The medical system in the United States if quite different from other places in the world. You pay for everything. If you don't have any money, then you can just die and someone else will take your place in the line. It is quite different here in Quebec Canada. Let's not consider the united states for once, but rather some poor third countries. I don't think that doctors in Africa have an easy life.

Now, I didn't forget about the doctors in the army neither. Those deserve credits and do something constructive. Same thing for the soldiers who are sent to help people in other countries. Most of them who are currently in Iraq are doing a fine job and deserve respect. Yet, the same people who are helping people now have destroyed other people's live. Should we be glad they are there? I don't think it is a good balance.

I shouldn't have used the word doctor in its common sense, but rather anyone who is trying to save lives. Like I said before, if I wanted to make the world a better place, I'd rather be a scientific and try getting rid of viruses, cancers and AIDS.

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44825 date=1077066845]
Good to know where your values are. Doctors making $250,000 +++ per year saving people's lives, but destroying their patients finances is more noble than soldiers saving lives while earning only $5/hour and getting shot at, tortured, and ridiculed by their own people back home.
[/quote]

That's where Canada is different. We get healthcare for free, for the most part :)

We're being overtaxed too ;)

Is all of Canada so liberal?

[quote author=Arsenic link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44821 date=1077066106]
Noticed how Bush's speech drastically changed when US invaded Iran and realized there weren't any WMD anywhere? "But, ...we're doing it for the freedom of Iraqi people!" Sure.... but what about every other countries where people are suffering from dictatorship, enslavement and poverty? Aren't you going to do something too?

No, Iran is the "axis of evil", that kind of thing doesn't happen elsewhere.... give me a break. This is the art of disinformation my friend. Nazis thought there were doing the right thing too.

Only a very few wars meant really something. I tell you, I have more respect for doctors than soldiers. Those saving lifes deserve more credits than those taking ones in my book.
[/quote]

are u confused or something...cause u say iraqi ppl yet you keep saying we invaded iran...

Yes, my mistake ;)

Let me correct that.

[quote author=knight5491 link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44851 date=1077079135]
[quote author=Arsenic link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44821 date=1077066106]
Noticed how Bush's speech drastically changed when US invaded Iran and realized there weren't any WMD anywhere? "But, ...we're doing it for the freedom of Iraqi people!" Sure.... but what about every other countries where people are suffering from dictatorship, enslavement and poverty? Aren't you going to do something too?

No, Iran is the "axis of evil", that kind of thing doesn't happen elsewhere.... give me a break. This is the art of disinformation my friend. Nazis thought there were doing the right thing too.

Only a very few wars meant really something. I tell you, I have more respect for doctors than soldiers. Those saving lifes deserve more credits than those taking ones in my book.
[/quote]

are u confused or something...cause u say iraqi ppl yet you keep saying we invaded iran...
[/quote]

I thought that was obvious enough that it didn't need to be pointed out.

The entire world is liberal except for the republican party :)

It's perfectly reasonable that doctors get paid more than soldiers. Saving life is exponentially harder than taking it.

I know what you mean about some military stuff looking fun. I sometimes feel that way too - but not for long. The realisation always comes that that feeling arises because what you've seen is out of context. Sure, shooting a big gun and blowing stuff up would be fun - why do you think we enjoy violent games? But I don't think it would be fun when you factor in the fact that you're killing people, that people are trying to kill you, that you'd probably be absolutely terrified if you hadn't been brainwashed into killing without question - If you think war is glamarous, read about it. Read some accounts of veteran's experiences. Watch a movie about real war - Full Metal Jacket isn't a bad example. I thought Band of Brothers was stunning.

Don't let a news report fool you into thinking war is fun. War is hell. Obviousl I can't say that from personal experience, but I think anyone who's been in a real one would. I say real because, IMO, dropping $50,000,000 worth of bombs on someone's country and then riding around in a humvee doesn't really compare to a conflict like WW2 or Vietnam.

BTW, Bush & Blair are thugs and this whole affair was a big lie and I hope they both get voted out.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44882 date=1077122201]dropping $50,000,000 worth of bombs on someone's country and then riding around in a humvee doesn't really compare to a conflict like WW2 or Vietnam.[/quote]No kidding. I've heard each of those tomahawk missiles cost some 1.5 million dollars to make, and it's a one-time use. What a waste of money! Doesn't the U.S. have better means of blowing something up? Or at least cheaper?

Spending millions of dollars on weapons that get used only once is quite a waste. And then the U.S. government complains because of not having any money!

What's more sad is that the millions of dollars spent on those one-time-use weapons is pretty much pennies to the budget of the U.S. defense. I wonder where else they're wasting such insane amounts of money?

If we'd take the same amount of money used for those weapons and bought food for countries, there'd not be so much starving... and perhaps not so much envy towards the U.S.

Or even better, if we used the same money to create jobs in, not just our country but foreign countries as well, we'd help with poverty levels too.

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=30#msg44825 date=1077066845]
Good to know where your values are. Doctors making $250,000 +++ per year saving people's lives, but destroying their patients finances is more noble than soldiers saving lives while earning only $5/hour and getting shot at, tortured, and ridiculed by their own people back home.
[/quote]

Absolutely. If all the world were doctors, the world would be a much better place than if all the world were soldiers.

Yes that all sounds nice, but the sad fact is that is not the world we live in. It would all be nice if no one had a standing army, and everyone pitched in to feed the poor. Instead we got pissed off terrorists, and other countries out their that not only want us dead, they want everyone who doesn't think like them dead as well.

[quote]Don't let a news report fool you into thinking war is fun. War is hell. Obviousl I can't say that from personal experience, but I think anyone who's been in a real one would. I say real because, IMO, dropping $50,000,000 worth of bombs on someone's country and then riding around in a humvee doesn't really compare to a conflict like WW2 or Vietnam.[/quote]

Yes that's all true, but what could have happened during WW2 if we didn't have those soldiers to fight? A big reason why we have, and continue to keep, our freedom is because of our military.

The politicians are the ones who make this country look bad, not our soldiers. I don't see how you can sit here and bad mouth a soldier, who even though he may be scared out of his mind, still fights for what he feels is a better cause. You talk about feeding countries. I think it’s just as noble to go in and liberate a suppressed civilization. Bush is the one who turned the Iraq war into a joke, not the soldiers.

I am going to join the military, but only because it is what I believe, not because someone else told me to.

Great but you're smart and if you want to make a difference, go as an officer. Get your college degree then apply to OCS. As an enlisted, you'll spend several years letting other morons "lifers" order you around just because of how long they've been in the service, not because of how capable or smart they are. (or effective)

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45015 date=1077189648]
Great but you're smart and if you want to make a difference, go as an officer. Get your college degree then apply to OCS. As an enlisted, you'll spend several years letting other morons "lifers" order you around just because of how long they've been in the service, not because of how capable or smart they are. (or effective)
[/quote]

Is that any different from the business world?

Yes -- in the business world, you can pick up and leave at any time. Can even start a company that competes with the one you think is stupid.

Care to start an army and fight the United States? You'll be in Levenworth so fast your head will spin.

I meant the part about how the people who have been there longer tell you what to do, regardless of who is more capable.

My job is nice - there are only 2 programmer here, me and another student (one of my peers) - but most jobs are like that.

And I agree, we should form our own army. Viva la revolution de vL!

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg44957 date=1077154147]
I am going to join the military, but only because it is what I believe, not because someone else told me to.
[/quote]

But perhaps you've been told what to believe in.

[quote author=Arsenic link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45115 date=1077242452]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg44957 date=1077154147]
I am going to join the military, but only because it is what I believe, not because someone else told me to.
[/quote]

But perhaps you've been told what to believe in.
[/quote]

Yes, a great majority of my family has been in the military at one time or another. Most did not like it, but even the ones who liked it have not forced opinions on me. My dad was a cavalry scout in the army, and even though he tells me stories of good times, he has always told me to do what I believe in. I can't say I know what war is like from personal experience, but I do have a lot of knowledge from studying history. It's an obstacle I will have to overcome, but I don't feel that makes me a bad person. I also don't feel our soldiers are bad people, minus the actual loonies.

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45015 date=1077189648]
Great but you're smart and if you want to make a difference, go as an officer. Get your college degree then apply to OCS. As an enlisted, you'll spend several years letting other morons "lifers" order you around just because of how long they've been in the service, not because of how capable or smart they are. (or effective)
[/quote]

First, I would like to thank you for this post. I come from a broken family, and unfortunately made a lot of poor decisions a couple of years back. I dicked around in high school and shot any academic, and sports scholarships I could have gotten. I then decided to get myself arrested multiple times. I now have to wait a period of time before I am eligible for grants. This of course leaves me with the option of student loans. From the research I have done, if I get an AA degree that makes me eligible for officer training school. I know this is not a for sure thing, but if I chose this I would be banking on the fact that I would qualify. I know physically I will not have a problem, and I scored a 72 on my ASVAB two years ago. That of course is just my reasoning behind believing I will make it, based on research. My second option would be to take a larger student loan, and get a bachelors/master degree, and as you say go in as an officer. The third option of course is wait until federal aid is available to me, and just skip the loans. Right now I would just about qualify for a paid AA degree. I am however, to impatient to wait for this so it's an option I have already thrown out. I feel like I have wasted enough of my life as it is.

As much as I may support our military, I do not want to be a part of it my whole life. My current goals are to get an AA degree in networking, and then join the military and hopefully be eligible for officer training, and be a part of a specops unit. (Marine Force Recon to be exact) From there, I plan on getting a masters degree in business. (I guess this is also assuming I will get the grants they say I will) Then I would like to open a small computer shop, and let my dad manage it so he doesn't have to work for anyone anymore. Then I would like to move to Florida, or somewhere like it, and open up a scuba diving/sky diving/extreme sport shop for myself.

I have thought about getting an IT degree instead of business, but as much as I may love computers, I do not want to chase technology, and help someone else achieve their dreams my whole life. Besides, everything I have learned so far is self-taught, and I know I can continue doing that on my own and be completely satisfied. I wouldn't mind working towards a Sun Java Cert, a MCSE, and a MCSD. I would also like that AA in networking to turn into a BA someday as well.

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45042 date=1077211632]
Yes -- in the business world, you can pick up and leave at any time. Can even start a company that competes with the one you think is stupid.

Care to start an army and fight the United States? You'll be in Levenworth so fast your head will spin.
[/quote]

Isn't that the problem yes. Look at the freedom-loving Iraq, trying to develop their own weapons of mass destruction, just like the United States. They have just as much right to have weapons of mass destruction as you do. Well, that is, hypothetically, if they had even been developing weapons of mass destruction.

[quote author=Adron link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45226 date=1077312290]
Isn't that the problem yes. Look at the freedom-loving Iraq, trying to develop their own weapons of mass destruction, just like the United States. They have just as much right to have weapons of mass destruction as you do. Well, that is, hypothetically, if they had even been developing weapons of mass destruction.
[/quote]

The US created nuclear weapons in a race against the Soviet Union as a means of protection. This led to M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction), and at the moment keeps major countries from nuclear war. I don't think Iraq, freedom loving or not, has any valid reasons for having weapons of mass destruction.

If a country were to nuke the US, we would nuke them back, and neither side would win. A terrorist could detonate a WMD in the US without fear of nuclear retaliation. So what's to stop them from doing it in the US or any other country for that matter?

I am not advocating WMD, but it goes back to my argument of why we must have standing armies. It's just the world we live in, and it's a sick place.

Edit: Grammar/Spelling

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44717 date=1077020554]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44714 date=1077004926]I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either.[/quote]

Oh? Let's do a test. Do you pay individual income taxes? If so, why? If you say it's the law, show me. Now tell me you're not a zombie.
[/quote]

This is because of an obvious lack of knowledge. My job takes out what every other job has, and I don't complain unless it looks odd.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45250 date=1077323902]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44717 date=1077020554]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44714 date=1077004926]I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either.[/quote]

Oh? Let's do a test. Do you pay individual income taxes? If so, why? If you say it's the law, show me. Now tell me you're not a zombie.
[/quote]

This is because of an obvious lack of knowledge. My job takes out what every other job has, and I don't complain unless it looks odd.
[/quote]

Maybe. But it's your money they're taking out. Why do you not tell them to stop? It's because you believe they must take it out, and you'll find that they too believe they must take it out.

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45271 date=1077332965]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45250 date=1077323902]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44717 date=1077020554]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=15#msg44714 date=1077004926]I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either.[/quote]

Oh? Let's do a test. Do you pay individual income taxes? If so, why? If you say it's the law, show me. Now tell me you're not a zombie.
[/quote]

This is because of an obvious lack of knowledge. My job takes out what every other job has, and I don't complain unless it looks odd.
[/quote]

Maybe. But it's your money they're taking out. Why do you not tell them to stop? It's because you believe they must take it out, and you'll find that they too believe they must take it out.
[/quote]

No, I will honestly sit here and say that I don't know what they have legal rights to say, and I was completely unaware that I could tell them to stop.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45244 date=1077317456]
The US created nuclear weapons in a race against the Soviet Union as a means of protection. This led to M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction), and at the moment keeps major countries from nuclear war. I don't think Iraq, freedom loving or not, has any valid reasons for having weapons of mass destruction.
[/quote]

I think Iraq has excellent reasons for having weapons of mass destruction. If you attack Iraq, they nuke the USA, and neither side wins. Makes a lot of sense to me.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=45#msg45244 date=1077317456]
If a country were to nuke the US, we would nuke them back, and neither side would win. A terrorist could detonate a WMD in the US without fear of nuclear retaliation. So what's to stop them from doing it in the US or any other country for that matter?
[/quote]

There's nothing to stop them from that, just like there was nothing to stop you from detonating a WMD in Japan in mid 1940's without fear of nuclear retaliation?

This is why we need Gaia now, more than ever.

[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45336 date=1077378747]
This is why we need Gaia now, more than ever.
[/quote]

I agree with this as well.

Adron: You are right, but I still don't think that third world countries ruled by brutal dictators needs to have WMD. I know this might not sound much different than Bush, but at least he would have to get authorized to nuke someone.

Sadam gassed how many thousands of his own people? Not to mention countless other cruel and inhumane things him and his sons did. I don't know about you, but if I lived in Iraq under his control, I would have done everything possible to help get my freedom.

Along with that though I do think we need to let Iraqi’s govern themselves and get out of there.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45397 date=1077404715]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45336 date=1077378747]
This is why we need Gaia now, more than ever.
[/quote]
Sadam gassed how many thousands of his own people? Not to mention countless other cruel and inhumane things him and his sons did. I don't know about you, but if I lived in Iraq under his control, I would have done everything possible to help get my freedom.
[/quote]
Yeah, the US never kills its own people. Oh, wait, I almost forgot about the hundreds of people Bush put to death in Texas when he was governor. And that's only in a single state in a much shorter timespan.

[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45409 date=1077410830]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45397 date=1077404715]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45336 date=1077378747]
This is why we need Gaia now, more than ever.
[/quote]
Sadam gassed how many thousands of his own people? Not to mention countless other cruel and inhumane things him and his sons did. I don't know about you, but if I lived in Iraq under his control, I would have done everything possible to help get my freedom.
[/quote]
Yeah, the US never kills its own people. Oh, wait, I almost forgot about the hundreds of people Bush put to death in Texas when he was governor. And that's only in a single state in a much shorter timespan.
[/quote]
But at least you are put to death by a jury... I am not advocating the death penalty, but I don't see how that really compares.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45437 date=1077415777]
[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45409 date=1077410830]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45397 date=1077404715]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45336 date=1077378747]
This is why we need Gaia now, more than ever.
[/quote]
Sadam gassed how many thousands of his own people? Not to mention countless other cruel and inhumane things him and his sons did. I don't know about you, but if I lived in Iraq under his control, I would have done everything possible to help get my freedom.
[/quote]
Yeah, the US never kills its own people. Oh, wait, I almost forgot about the hundreds of people Bush put to death in Texas when he was governor. And that's only in a single state in a much shorter timespan.
[/quote]
But at least you are put to death by a jury... I am not advocating the death penalty, but I don't see how that really compares.
[/quote]

You don't see how a small group of people allowing the death of somebody compares to a couple people deciding to kill somebody?


Incidentally, why is this in the fun forum? :)

[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45440 date=1077420131]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45437 date=1077415777]
[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45409 date=1077410830]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45397 date=1077404715]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45336 date=1077378747]
This is why we need Gaia now, more than ever.
[/quote]
Sadam gassed how many thousands of his own people? Not to mention countless other cruel and inhumane things him and his sons did. I don't know about you, but if I lived in Iraq under his control, I would have done everything possible to help get my freedom.
[/quote]
Yeah, the US never kills its own people. Oh, wait, I almost forgot about the hundreds of people Bush put to death in Texas when he was governor. And that's only in a single state in a much shorter timespan.
[/quote]
But at least you are put to death by a jury... I am not advocating the death penalty, but I don't see how that really compares.
[/quote]

You don't see how a small group of people allowing the death of somebody compares to a couple people deciding to kill somebody?


Incidentally, why is this in the fun forum? :)
[/quote]

No I don't. If that small group of people decides to put someone to death, than the person obviously chose his fate when he committed the crime. My point being he got a fair trial, the Iraqi's did not.

It is a weird place for such a discussion. I guess we should let it die.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45448 date=1077440773]
[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45440 date=1077420131]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45437 date=1077415777]
[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45409 date=1077410830]
[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45397 date=1077404715]
[quote author=Grok link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45336 date=1077378747]
This is why we need Gaia now, more than ever.
[/quote]
Sadam gassed how many thousands of his own people? Not to mention countless other cruel and inhumane things him and his sons did. I don't know about you, but if I lived in Iraq under his control, I would have done everything possible to help get my freedom.
[/quote]
Yeah, the US never kills its own people. Oh, wait, I almost forgot about the hundreds of people Bush put to death in Texas when he was governor. And that's only in a single state in a much shorter timespan.
[/quote]
But at least you are put to death by a jury... I am not advocating the death penalty, but I don't see how that really compares.
[/quote]

You don't see how a small group of people allowing the death of somebody compares to a couple people deciding to kill somebody?


Incidentally, why is this in the fun forum? :)
[/quote]

No I don't. If that small group of people decides to put someone to death, than the person obviously chose his fate when he committed the crime. My point being he got a fair trial, the Iraqi's did not.

It is a weird place for such a discussion. I guess we should let it die.

[/quote]

People are still being killed for the reasons that the leader considers "right".

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45448 date=1077440773]
No I don't. If that small group of people decides to put someone to death, than the person obviously chose his fate when he committed the crime. My point being he got a fair trial, the Iraqi's did not.

It is a weird place for such a discussion. I guess we should let it die.
[/quote]

The rules for what is a "fair trial" are different for different places. They probably chose to be subversive elements instead of worshipping Saddam as they should have, and so they chose their fate.

[quote author=iago link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45440 date=1077420131]
Incidentally, why is this in the fun forum? :)
[/quote]

I don't know either, but the thread does start with a post that is as fun as many of the others that I haven't deleted, so I'm letting it stay. I've never moderated the bottoms of threads much here, unless someone posts new funny things to the bottom. If you want to check the funny stuff, you're supposed to read the first post of every thread, not scroll way down to the end.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45437 date=1077415777]
But at least you are put to death by a jury... I am not advocating the death penalty, but I don't see how that really compares.
[/quote]

Innocent people have been put to death by jurys. A jury consists of ordinary people that can be mislead or caught up in emotion just as well or even more than a third world dictator might be.

Are you trying to imply that a randomly picked (I assume that's the way they're picked, well, having committed no crimes etc?) group of people would always be better at making decisions than a leader of a country, who has gotten to his position either with the help of his clever advisors, or by being clever himself?

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=4;threadid=5311;start=60#msg45397 date=1077404715]
Adron: You are right, but I still don't think that third world countries ruled by brutal dictators needs to have WMD. I know this might not sound much different than Bush, but at least he would have to get authorized to nuke someone.
[/quote]

What about Israel, which is brutally murdering people that never had a fair trial, as well as exacting revenge on innocent people (this latter concept is also known as Terrorism)?