With all this information in these botdev forums I propose an idea to make a site a little orgranized based on anything anyone needed help on. Like wildcards, ladder packets and whatnot to help people. It kinda sucks to look through these forums with like 50+ pages of topics to look for what you need as well as asking questions to questions that probably have already been answered numerous times like Wildcarding function for example. I think it would be a great addition to the b.net community if someone could put together a site with functions and code or whatever. This could be alot more organized and could stop numerous posts over the same thing. And there is an awsome resource right here in valhalla legends forums. I understand that there is already a site that displays packets and things but I am talking a site with code and functions that many people need help with or actually need. What do u think?

I am not saying that valhalla legends staff should make this site I anyone applicable should do it.

With a bit of help I will do it. Anyone up to help?

[quote author=Networks link=board=17;threadid=4954;start=0#msg41345 date=1075227329]
This could be alot more organized and could stop numerous posts over the same thing.[/quote]

A couple of points of disagreement:
First, there is a general concensus against just "giving" code up for free, on the grounds that those who would take it don't understand it and only have the immediate problem solved -- they don't learn much/anything that would let them solve related problems in the future.
Second, despite bnetdocs, there's lots of posts about packets and formats (though not as bad as it once was). I think it more likely that such a site would just provide someplace for the regulars to link to, rather than actually stemming the flow of questions.

well, any info that should be on the site should be mostly from these forums so code put there wouldn't be a problem since it was posted publically here am I correct? Most of the code here isn't actual code you have to be able to mod it into your program to function correctly anyway.
And as far at the flow of questions if there was forum like there is one here and a big enough community it would and should keep it running well as well as adding new info daily if not weekly.

It's a real pain to look through all the topics and I am sure some of you guys are sick of answering the same posts. I know I have seen stealth relink post numerous times.

http://botdev.valhallalegends.com does what you're suggesting, to some extent.

To some extent and I'm not talking about just packets...Maybe http://botdev.valhallalegends.com could just have more content like I was saying

As far as the packet documentation goes, we already have BnetDocs to provide us with detailed information about all of the standard packets, if you feel that you can provide better information or even provide packets that have not yet been documented publically, then I think that's a good idea.

Now, about the functions... Most of the more common functions people seem to like to put into bots can usally be found by clicking the 'Search' button on the top of this page, but there are infinite number of things one can put into a bot, are you planning on trying to add every single one of these functions on your website? If so, it would be somewhat of a waste of time. We already have numerous amounts of resources that provide us with nearly every piece of information possible, a more popular one being http://www.pscode.com. By going there, selecting a language, and searching for a function, you will instantly get many source codes and usally some documentation about what you are in search of. Unless you feel that you can do a better job than them, it just seems kind of like a waste of time.

Providing organized and easy to access information is a waste of time? Maybe for you but not for some of us who struggle with functions and need the help. Lord your in a whole different standard but this would be very useful to those who struggle.

[Quote]Providing organized and easy to access information is a waste of time?[/Quote]
I didn't say that, you obviously didn't read what I wrote. I simply said that it's already been done. We already have a wide range of resources avaliable to us, all a few mouse clicks away.

Don't build a coffee shop next to a Starbucks.

I dont think it doesnt belong here but it might.
On the main site valhallalegends.com/pub is telling me
"You are not authorized to view this page." :'(

[quote author=MoNeY link=board=17;threadid=4954;start=0#msg41380 date=1075235586]
I dont think it doesnt belong here but it might.
On the main site valhallalegends.com/pub is telling me
"You are not authorized to view this page." :'([/quote]

Can you be a bit more specific? Did you use www.valhallalegends.com or valhallalegends.com? To get correct results, you must use the former. Also, most (perhaps all) of our directories are configured to prohibit the server autogenerating a list if the directory does not have a user created index page. You must know the exact name of the file you want (which should be on whatever page links you to the file). It is correct that you receive the following when accessing www.valhallalegends.com/pub/ :
[quote]
Directory Listing Denied
This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed.[/quote]

Is this a new low?

Unless I misunderstand, you're acknowledging that almost everything you need is available and even written for you, but now it's too hard to search for?

Maybe we should just have a 'bot programmers for hire' section too, so he'll actually write the bot how you want it?

[quote author=Grok link=board=17;threadid=4954;start=0#msg41382 date=1075238485]
Maybe we should just have a 'bot programmers for hire' section too[/quote]

No, that would be bad. Most of these people don't want to hire somebody to do it. ;) Hiring implies payment.

Perhaps it would be better for everyone if we had three vL members each month be bot-writing slaves, and could write custom bots for every 'programmer' out there who wants one. What a great idea. Can I take first watch?

You guys take it to a whole new level :o I think it would do alot of good to have a site explaining Like operators, reading from text files, and blah blah blah. The basic shit that people ask for like 38905743958 times a day. It wouldn't hurt to try and eliminate annoying people. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Ill link It up here in a week or so. Then we can really see if it any use or not. [quote]Maybe we should just have a 'bot programmers for hire' section too[/quote]
alot of people arent trying to get the answers. If they were they could use a bot that has been made. Or try and hex it like the newbs they are.

[quote author=Gangz link=board=17;threadid=4954;start=0#msg41386 date=1075240998]
You guys take it to a whole new level :o I think it would do alot of good to have a site explaining Like operators, reading from text files, and blah blah blah. The basic shit that people ask for like 38905743958 times a day. [/quote]

http://www.msdn.microsoft.com/

u just have to go and build that damn coffee shop dont you , my thoughts.. waste of time , people wont read the code they will copy and paste it like the ravernous bloodhounds that they are. Its common Human nature to take the short road.

What someone should really do is publish a guide to effectively searching Google. I've found more explanations, detailed information and descriptions of issues I've had through Google than anywhere else.

Ok you guys are blowing this way out of poportion because first if this site were to be made it would be basically on specfic things possibly more related b.net. And when you guys are talking about copying and pasting? WTF I did say that whatever should be on the site should come from these forums unless you guys gave actual code then thats your fault for doing that but I am assuming that you guys haven't done that. Google broadens your search, why not have a simple easy site for all your needs right there?

Maybe we should just have a 'bot programmers for hire' section too?

^ What does that have to do with anything?

I believe most of you are misunderstanding what I am proposing. This site that could be made should have content from here or where ever else that will help people rather than the same person asking the same question 98234 times over and over again. For those advanced programmers like the vL clan and some others this probably wont be a resource for you becuase well the info and content is most likely coming from you so if you think that its a copy and paste type thing people are doing its your fault for giving out this information other wise it should be a really good resource site.

Nobody is stopping you from making your crappy coffee shop so why not go ahead and do it?

[quote author=Networks link=board=17;threadid=4954;start=15#msg41399 date=1075243854]
For those advanced programmers like the vL clan and some others this probably wont be a resource for you becuase well the info and content is most likely coming from you so if you think that its a copy and paste type thing people are doing its your fault for giving out this information other wise it should be a really good resource site.
[/quote]

So even thought this wont be a resource at all to some people , your still asking them to waste there time and do it? why cant u just search the forum and copy and paste from there...

If all the code is already on the forum, then what is stopping you from taking this source code and organizing it instead of making somebody else do it?

Moderators: since this is obviously not a bot development topic, but one for vL general, I don't see anything wrong with it being moved there if you wished.

[quote]the same person asking the same question 98234 times over and over again[/quote]
Sounds like an awfully stupid person to me. Perhaps that person should be shot?

But here's my opinion on this issue:
Learn how to do it, and do it your own goddamn self instead of whining that other people won't do it for you!!!

Keep in mind that I don't use multiple exclamation marks as a personal rule, so it must mean something when I do.

Anyway, I've been programming for the better part of 11 years, since I was about 9. I taught myself basic, I taught myself visual basic, and I've taken 5 years of schooling involving various languages from VB to C++ to Java to Assembly. I spent an entire week, 8 hours a day, reading, just to learn how to do JSP and Servlets. If I've spent 5 years working hard to learn this, and 11 years practicing, why can't everybody else? What's stopping ANYBODY here who asks for code for going out and learning how to program properly themselves. If they can't go out and learn themselves, then they should go take up another hobby, like drinking.

Using the Like operator isn't hard. Using lists isn't hard. There's buckets of information online just waiting to be tapped, from msdn to pscode.com to Linux's man pages, but people are just too lazy to look it up themselves, they want it all done and handed to them on a nice platter without them doing any work themselves.

And that's my opinion.

Grok - You should have moved this to the Fun Forum instead :)

[quote author=iago link=board=2;threadid=4954;start=15#msg41483 date=1075302839]
Linux's man pages
[/quote]

Now we all know what iago and other Linux users like to do when the door's are closed and the blinds are shut. ;)

[quote author=Gangz link=board=2;threadid=4954;start=0#msg41386 date=1075240998]
You guys take it to a whole new level :o I think it would do alot of good to have a site explaining Like operators, reading from text files, and blah blah blah. The basic shit that people ask for like 38905743958 times a day. It wouldn't hurt to try and eliminate annoying people. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Ill link It up here in a week or so. Then we can really see if it any use or not.
[/quote]

Damn! Man, when I wanted to learn how to make an interactive web site, I taught myself! When I was in high school, I spent the better part of an entire year just learning the ins and outs, every nook and cranny of JavaScript. My pinnacle project was a client-side search engine. The following winter break during my junior year, I learned the ASP object model and wrote an entire website for my clan. That got me a job at a software development company, which got me my first experience with C#, leading to VB.NET (and then to classic VB) and my first forays into C++. Since then I've taken classes for Java (cake once you know C#) and Assembly. Now I'm not even a CS major anymore -- I'm a political science major -- but I do freelance programming work for (specifically) websites. I'm working on learning Flash MX 2004, and while it's going slow, I'm not out every day begging people to make me a Flash website so I can reverse-engineer their work. One of my current projects is an ASP.NET port in C# of YaBB.

I'm with Iago on this one -- if you're not willing to put the time and effort into learning how to effectively use things such as the Like() operator (note that it's included in Microsoft Access queries as well), then you have no business programming.

Learn how to read the language documentation -- that is the single greatest thing you can do as a novice programmer. Once you understand the jargon -- what an operator is, what a statement, an expression, a function vs. a method, a type, a pointer, et. al. -- then you will find it infinitely easier to find information on the web. If you needed to find out if there was built-in support for something LIKE the Like() operator in VB, you might have started in the Language Features section of Help, then gone to the Keywords. Lo and behold, Like is in the Keywords section for Visual Basic. Clicking on it takes you to a nice, elaborate explanation about How to Use the Like() Operator.

Get off your lazy asses and do some work.

Obvious they touched on a chord here. What amazed me about this is they're not even complaining that the source code isn't already written for them. They're complaining because they have to click search and sift through the results. D'oh?

[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=4954;start=15#msg41598 date=1075342974]
Obvious they touched on a chord here. What amazed me about this is they're not even complaining that the source code isn't already written for them. They're complaining because they have to click search and sift through the results. D'oh?
[/quote]

It's like the same way that people who work for years to make a lot of money probably hate people who are born rich and have to do no work to get it. :)

[quote author=iago link=board=2;threadid=4954;start=15#msg41608 date=1075346637]
[quote author=Grok link=board=2;threadid=4954;start=15#msg41598 date=1075342974]
Obvious they touched on a chord here. What amazed me about this is they're not even complaining that the source code isn't already written for them. They're complaining because they have to click search and sift through the results. D'oh?
[/quote]

It's like the same way that people who work for years to make a lot of money probably hate people who are born rich and have to do no work to get it. :)
[/quote]

republicans and democrats, respectively?

lol I think Grok pritty much covered my opinion...
If you really need a wake up call, consider this. Try researching, writing, re-writing when that doesn't work and then most definitly polishing all of your code so its considered atleast mildly optimized and compare the time that would take to how long it takes to search our forums. I'm not a moderator and have only visited the botdev forum a couple times on accident for a very good reason, but perhaps we just expected too much out of people? After all despite all rational thought its just far too tempting to want more once you're given a little taste. Thanks to our forums/members/website and many people who contributed to it, there is now a handful of bots out there writen by people who I wouldn't even label as programmers. Know this, the more we given, the more you'll want. The more idiot-proof things are made, the more bigger idiots emerge. You're asking far too much, but by all means, demand that several people (good job on not even volunteering yourself, btw) take their time to make a perfect reference manual on how to make a bot for you, so you can copy and paste it all togather. Change the name and go around with an anti-idle for Networks Bot? I recommend appologizing before you try to state your excuse or justify your rediculous laziness.

[quote author=Hostile link=board=2;threadid=4954;start=15#msg41631 date=1075361283]
lol I think Grok pritty much covered my opinion...
If you really need a wake up call, consider this. Try researching, writing, re-writing when that doesn't work and then most definitly polishing all of your code so its considered atleast mildly optimized and compare the time that would take to how long it takes to search our forums. I'm not a moderator and have only visited the botdev forum a couple times on accident for a very good reason, but perhaps we just expected too much out of people? After all despite all rational thought its just far too tempting to want more once you're given a little taste. Thanks to our forums/members/website and many people who contributed to it, there is now a handful of bots out there writen by people who I wouldn't even label as programmers. Know this, the more we given, the more you'll want. The more idiot-proof things are made, the more bigger idiots emerge. You're asking far too much, but by all means, demand that several people (good job on not even volunteering yourself, btw) take their time to make a perfect reference manual on how to make a bot for you, so you can copy and paste it all togather. Change the name and go around with an anti-idle for Networks Bot? I recommend appologizing before you try to state your excuse or justify your rediculous laziness.
[/quote]

Now is this directed at someone in particular, or everyone not vL? I just feel like you were talking to me the whole time I was reading it.

[quote author=Tuberload link=board=2;threadid=4954;start=15#msg41633 date=1075366635]
Now is this directed at someone in particular, or everyone not vL? I just feel like you were talking to me the whole time I was reading it.
[/quote]

What was I saying about the bigger idiot again? Anyways, heres your answer... I'll let you choose which one.
1: Then don't read it.
2: Become atleast partially interpretative while reading.
3: You have a guilty conscious. :P

Wow Tuber, in no way does Hostile's reply look like it's directed towards you. Unless him scattering 'you' throughout made you feel targeted?

Hostile, you make a good obvservation. To summarize though, I think as the difficulty to do something decreases because the building blocks become more available, more people realize the goal is attainable, so they ask for the parts they feel they cannot do. Thus it gets "dumbed down" each generation of difficulty.

I didn't think it was directed towards me in particular. I was being sarcastic in how he worded his response because he never said anyone’s name. While I was reading it I almost felt like he was talking to me directly. I didn't mean anything else by it. Just trying to be humorous in, I guess a weird way. ;D