I just erased a whole post of roasting people for treating those who post on this forum like CRAP.
Bottom line, I think you guys should take it easy on those who enquire about joining, etc... Newbish as they may be, take it easy on them.. I can remember when a few of you vL'ers weren't so "elite" over course of my 5 years on battle.net.. All I am saying is take it easy on the "kids'..They have a hard enough time as it is. When they strive for something like joining vL and get roasted on site.. Well.. I think that is kind of shitty.. You pretty much insult there intelligence not to mention make them feel like shit in any way possible.. What if I were to make a post like that? Would you insult me for wanting to join vL? How would you even know what me or any other person is capable of... NUFF SAID, I am just gonna end this post like this: Tone down the attitude guys, you really need to take it easier on those who aren't "part of the crew".. You guys are just ruthless... =/

Hmm, wouldn't surprise me if we are indeed. We want people to look around a bit themselves before asking though. People coming up here and asking to join, without even knowing what we do (info on what we do, what joining means for you and how to join are all on the web site), well, they haven't really tried. And they're with 95% certainty not the people we'd want to join. That gives us no reason to give them information on how to join, or even to encourage them to stay at the time being.

Adron: I understand that half the people on battle.net have asked to join vL for a chance at "winbot" or whatever it is that vL is famous for..Yes I do see that 95% of the people aren't qualified to join vL and wouldn't even get through leader voting, much less a vL given test.. That doesn't mean they should be treated like crap.. Hey, if I was some kid who heard about a winbot I would try and get at it as well.. Sure they blindly want to join vL not knowing what it is that you do or stand for.. That's just your everyday bandwagoner's and newbies, still doesn't mean you should roast them ;)

Hmmno, we shouldn't *roast* them. But still, typically they get instructed to go find out on their own ("finding out the requirements is your first test"), or, get pointed to the web page. If they at that time don't go do their research, I don't see why we should waste more time on them other than to amuse ourselves at their expense.

Yes.. but I remember getting approved to test for vL and just getting to that point wasn't very easy.. Now correct me *Grok* if I am wrong, but you were there when I was going to go up for vL membership.. I didn't just walk in the door and ask did I? Most people just don't understand that reading the guidelines page and posting I want to join isn't quite how it works..Those who I have seen do such in the past have gotten flamed *roasted* for it... I am just saying people need to take it easy with there attitudes all around, not just when people are posting about membership.. vL members ban whom they please without even getting to know who they are speaking with.. They'd rather flex their elite "vL ban muscle" on them.. So, for those who decide they want to join vl and have what it takes, I say give them the time.. I don't even see that much happening..

I can agree about people sometimes not being given a proper chance. Mostly because of the automated bans built into the bot. Still, vL isn't about growing, and members shouldn't have to waste a lot of their time on people wanting to join but not having what it takes. Sometimes we have to focus on doing what we want to do, not just growing.

Bsd, you are correct. You asked after you had been around us long enough to have some idea what we're about. But I do remember that you still carried misconceptions about us, and you might still.

In my experience alone, most vL members don't grasp what vL is about until after they are members for several weeks or longer. And those are the people we [em]want[/em] to join.

However I do not believe we [em]roast[/em] people for a simple join inquiry. Show me posts where I'm wrong and you'll have found an exception. Show me that we do it over 25% of the time and I'll say I'm wrong and that we roast 'em.

Suggesting to them that they 'figure it out' or 'read the website' does not qualify as roasting, however. A person with minimal common sense wanting to join would click around the clan website to find join requirements.

Like Adron said though -- if these people haven't even read our tiny website, they don't know enough or care enough about us that we should want them as members.

If you have been reading the forums the last couple weeks, you'll have noticed that after one such join request/exchange, I posted a "How to Join Valhalla Legends" message.

That being true, I find it difficult to agree with your position that we mistreat a signficant number of people who want to join, but your observations are welcomed.

Fine you win meanie =(

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=3224;start=0#msg25379 date=1067013975]
I can agree about people sometimes not being given a proper chance. Mostly because of the automated bans built into the bot. Still, vL isn't about growing, and members shouldn't have to waste a lot of their time on people wanting to join but not having what it takes. Sometimes we have to focus on doing what we want to do, not just growing.
[/quote]

Quite true, and it has to seem unfair to outsiders. However this makes Valhalla Legends unique among battle.net clans (at least). In programming terms, you could say the design requirements of the clan include isolation from and exclusion of everyone else. So much so that we have no concept of alliances that other clans do; the notion is not even entertained.

Each vL member is the clan. The leaders have most of the burden -- to serve those members. Adron, myself, and Skywing spend probably 50 hours a year filtering through candidates for membership.

Some of those filters can be done pretty quickly. An early filter, and one used heavily, is to see if wannabe has even read the "About [vL]" page and understood the join requirements.

shit i think that kids think that if they can program in C++ or whatever they think they can join and its all gonna be programming this and programming that maybe if you made it more clear that vl isn't just programming it'd draw a different response from some people just a thought shit i remember i was gonna be tested on what linux or unix?

Yes, I believe you were going to be tested by Azure, and in his absence, Thing.

Did you ever hook up with Azzy?

nah he was always ultra-afk

*ps - I don't think thing likes me :(

I may be a counter example to part of that, in that I didn't know a lot when I joined, but I was in the process of learning a lot, and still, for the most part, am.

On the other hand, I didn't join the channel and ask to join. I hung around the channel, played games with Grok/Joker/occasinally Skywing, and got to know the leaders before ever asking for a test.

[quote author=Bsd link=board=2;threadid=3224;start=0#msg25395 date=1067016472]
*ps - I don't think thing likes me :(
[/quote]

I think you brought that on yourself...

[quote author=iago link=board=2;threadid=3224;start=0#msg25400 date=1067017293]On the other hand, I didn't join the channel and ask to join. I hung around the channel, played games with Grok/Joker/occasinally Skywing, and got to know the leaders before ever asking for a test.
[/quote]

But since we felt sorry for you being a mutant, we made an exception and passed you.

People who hang out around here can find themselves a spot where they fit in without being members. And at that time, they're likely to pass a test if they ask, or eventually be invited if they never ask.

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=3224;start=15#msg25416 date=1067018223]
People who hang out around here can find themselves a spot where they fit in without being members. And at that time, they're likely to pass a test if they ask, or eventually be invited if they never ask.
[/quote]

That's often the easiest way to get in, by making friends with members, just like you said. Spht, Zakath, and to a lesser extent myself, ended up being good friends with many members before joining, which simplifies life.

On a sidenote, "reguarding" Gremlin's post:
[quote author=iago link=board=2;threadid=3186;start=0#msg24921 date=1066783355]
You have to be tested. Consider the first test finding out what you have to do.
[/quote]

is an indirect reference to http://www.try2hack.nl/faq/:
[quote]Frequently Asked Questions

1. Where do I start the challenge?

Consider finding the start of the challenge level 0.
[/quote]

Which, sadly, nobody "got". Oh well :)

[quote author=Bsd link=board=2;threadid=3224;start=0#msg25391 date=1067015849]
shit i think that kids think that if they can program in C++ or whatever they think they can join and its all gonna be programming this and programming that maybe if you made it more clear that vl isn't just programming it'd draw a different response from some people just a thought shit i remember i was gonna be tested on what linux or unix?
[/quote]
The "About [vL]" page certainly doesn't say or imply that the clan is about programming; in fact, it makes it fairly clear that it's not about programming.

If you disagree with how we run our clan, you're more than welcome to start and run your own however you like.

P.S. using punctuation greatly increases the readability of posts.

From 'About [vL]':

[quote]
The purpose of the clan is to provide for its members a single place to gather and talk. [...] Newbies, lamers, and their ilk are not only uninvited, but banned on sight. The clan provides and maintains a clan channel where all members can talk and have total control over visitors.
[/quote]

This sums up my reasons for visiting vL's channel (before I was a member) most succinctly. A great number of people make it obvious that they are unsuitable candidates for membership in the way they ask if they can join. The number of times I have seen a request that clearly shows no understanding of vL's purpose or aims is past counting. As many people have already stated, I have little patience for people who don't even read the site before asking if they can join. That said, I do agree that slamming newbies is pretty unpleasent. Where I can, I usually remove posts that are excessively flame-ish.