On July 16, 2003, I took the red pill. For years I have just accepted and believed that my personal labor was taxable income. For years I have filled out my tax return and listed that labor as taxable, and thus assessed myself for taxes that are not taxable by law.

The government just lets us do it, and they happiliy spend the money.

Amazing. Well, not my labor income, anymore. I am no longer paying taxes on my labor income, until the day it becomes a law.

Yeah, but just watch. You're going to start getting those automated phone messages from George Bush during dinner time now.

They don't tax you for things you do on the net right? Is that what you are referring to?

Congrats at any rate.

Personal Wages and Income tax. As it turns out, there is no legal requirement to pay federal taxes on the money I earn from my personal labor. That which they call the "federal income tax", which I previously paid at the rate of 28% per year, believing it was my legal duty, is a complete sham.

No law says I have to pay such a thing. So as of July 16th, my eyes were opened and my income was freed.

Ok I'm sorry I'm still confused. By personal labour do you mean construction or jobs you take on as a side... I don't live in the U.S but I'm sure Canada is the same.

Yes, most people's initial reaction is complete confusion because they have always accepted as fact, incorrectly, that they are legally required to pay taxes on the wages they are paid for their own labor.

That was my own reaction, confusion, denial, astonishment that anyone could think or suggest that it is not the case.

However, in the United States, the law does not consider the pay you receive for your labor to be income, and thus, you do not have to report it as income. If you do report it as income, you then are assessing yourself a tax liability, and of course must pay taxes on that assessment. If you correctly do not report it as income, there can be no assessment against that amount.

Try telling that to Tony Blair.
Damn 40% tax rate. :-\

+1 for Gork ;D

The IRS would disagree about your thoughts ;D

No, they know it is correct. They just don't like to admit it. Everyone who knows the law and realizes the truth is escorted out of the IRS audits and you never hear from them again.

I'm curious as to where you got this from as well as legal references to support this.

If the money you are paid for your personal labor is not income, then what is?

Income is basically money you get without actually directly or physically inputting. I think what Grok's doing is some kind of loophole of wording that technically doesn't make you liable to pay taxes that the government may have been intending you to pay. But anyway, Grok's right. If he found a way not to have to pay a tax, good for him. :) The government steals plenty. Why not keep some of our tax money for ourselves instead of letting it be potentially stolen by greedy politician? ;)

[quote author=Thing link=board=2;threadid=1939;start=0#msg15559 date=1058834522]
If the money you are paid for your personal labor is not income, then what is?
[/quote]

The courts have upheld that your labor is your property. When you sell your property, say to an employer, at an agreed upon rate, and they pay you that rate, then there is no profit, and thus no income.

I'll post links soon. But 68 million Americans no longer file income tax returns or pay taxes. If you're one of the people who still do, you'll want to pay attention to the webs I post.

One of them is http://www.givemeliberty.org

Good reading. Enjoy.

Grok, with the money you save, buy a Playstation 2 and NCAA Football 2004 and play online with me! ;)

Is it just me, or was that site just a bunch of high-ASCII characters?

[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=1939;start=0#msg15563 date=1058834873]
The government steals plenty. Why not keep some of our tax money for ourselves instead of letting it be potentially stolen by greedy politician? ;)
[/quote]

Of course, as we all know stealing is always wrong. Let's chop the hands off the government.

Conclusions & Legal Findings of Fact: FIFTH AMENDMENT

 The Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination is absolute and unalienable.

 There is no 5th Amendment “exception” for tax matters.

 To avoid explicitly ruling that citizens are, in fact, protected by the 5th Amendment while filing tax returns, a federal Court of Appeals ruled, instead, that the 5th Amendment does not apply to tax returns because the 5th Amendment only applies to compelled testimony. Ergo, filing a tax return is not compelled, it is voluntary.

 Using the threats of criminal prosecution, financial penalties, and incarceration, the government effectively forces citizens to “voluntarily” waive their Fifth Amendment rights.

 The IRS & DOJ clearly uses tax return information to initiate and investigate civil and criminal prosecutions against citizens.


 The People do not have to tolerate an income tax system in which the government requires citizens to give up any Constitutional rights.

Bottom Line: If you file, you have waived your 5th Amendment rights.

[quote author=Adron link=board=2;threadid=1939;start=15#msg15589 date=1058858249]
[quote author=Raven link=board=2;threadid=1939;start=0#msg15563 date=1058834873]
The government steals plenty. Why not keep some of our tax money for ourselves instead of letting it be potentially stolen by greedy politician? ;)
[/quote]

Of course, as we all know stealing is always wrong. Let's chop the hands off the government.

[/quote]

Ok, what's an example where stealing is unconditionally right?

The only thing about all of those legal findings on GiveMeLiberty.org is that while they may be what we are entitled to de jure, in real life or de facto, if you will, your ass is going to be arrested and put in prison for tax evasion. Arguing your way out of that one would be interesting.

They have done so in the past. But more and more people are finding out that the "personal income tax" is a big sham and have completely stopped filing their taxes, and or filing "0" returns, since they had no reportable taxable income. The courts are consistently siding with these individuals.

This is all a big load of bricks waiting to fall down. For 70 years they have been oppressing individuals with this money grab, and many thousands of lives have been destroyed, people have committed suicides over their IRS debts. IRS would come in with strong-armed tactics, steal property, land, bank accounts, and just wipe families out.

They're very afraid right now, because they know its been a sham and know people are increasingly finding out that they never had legal authority to tax this way.

The media won't even report on it, because they are the direct puppets of the federal government.

Congress refuses to answer questions about it, despite the First Amendment guarantees to every citizen that they must be answered truthfully.