I'm not so sure if this belongs here so move it if it doesn't but it does deal with Battle.Net bot development. It's a question of ethics. How does one build themselves into a program they create? I'm not talking about backdoors and trojans to steal cd keys, account names and passwords, etc. I'm talking more about the ability for the programmer of a bot to be able to unban himself on a bot he creates. I guess my question is does the programmer build himself in with any access? If so how much? This has been nagging at me and I'm curious what other programmers think. I know that some programmrs give themself full access and some only give themselves access to unban themselves and quit the bot. Well I'll stop here and just listen in to your responses.

!~!HaZaRD!~!

I think a lot of that has to deal with the Author and his idea of who uses it, I think security features like that can be good to have, Users need to realize this is the programmers, hard work, sweat, and brain busting, using these programs should be considered more of a privlege then a *eh its just a bot* they don't realize that someone once paved the way for better upgrades to be done. I sorta sidetracked myself, The bots purpose should be planned out before adding that kind of access, the author should realize the abilities of the bot, and know what could happen IF it did fall into a risky user, its all about the product.. does it/can it pose a violation to the server load somehow or can someone tamper with it to be used for bad intentions? thats just my 2 cents.

I have never done anything like that in any bot I have ever made, I am proud to say.

My bot is distributed with a few of my accounts having full access, but anybody can go and and remove that. The thing is, very few people do. :)

Uhh, once u release the bot into public domain, it no longer belongs to you it belongs to "them" (the public). if you want it to remain yours then dont release it. thats like buying a copy of windows and by doing that letting microsoft add/delete programs from ur computer or something silly like that, oh wait....

[quote author=c0ol link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=0#msg13514 date=1057116212]
Uhh, once u release the bot into public domain, it no longer belongs to you it belongs to "them" (the public). if you want it to remain yours then dont release it. thats like buying a copy of windows and by doing that letting microsoft add/delete programs from ur computer or something silly like that, oh wait....
[/quote]
Making a program available for download and releasing it into the public domain are two very different things, at least in the United States. Check with your local overpaid lawyer for more details.

Ok I'll give an example to get back on-topic with this. Lord`Bacca`[vL] cannot be banned on a Chewbacca Bot (at least in its normal, unaltered form.) Would it be wise to do this...? Or would it be unethical?

!~!HaZaRD!~!

I think it is unfair to add yourself (the author) full access and even alittle access for that matter. i think most authors add them self to a bot they release. Wether you know or you dont know that they have access is the scary part. You never know, they could enter your channel take over your bot and start banning every1. So whenever you download a new bot you got to ask yourself "do i trust the author?"

I for one have never added my name and anyone elses name into my bot besides credits.

[quote author=WiLD link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=0#msg13600 date=1057156089]I for one have never added my name and anyone elses name into my bot besides credits.[/quote]

Just because I've never added my name to a bot doesn't mean it won't give me full access. Look at NBBOT as an example. Adron will always have full access on it, no matter what his login name might be. Other bots I know of are the same.

Hows this possible? Does he add all his names to it or is it a secret command maybe like ÷·§Giveªccess

If it was something that simple, it could easy be hex-edited out.

[quote author=Grok link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=0#msg13610 date=1057159384]
Just because I've never added my name to a bot doesn't mean it won't give me full access. Look at NBBOT as an example. Adron will always have full access on it, no matter what his login name might be. Other bots I know of are the same.
[/quote]

He just said that he didn't add his name to the bot. -1 for not reading before replying.

So, Grok, what do you think? Would it be smart for me to devise a system like Adron's to keep my options open with this question?

[Edit] By the way, Camel it is rumored that you are able to not only unban yourself on BNU`Bot, but quit the bot. Is this true...?

!~!HaZaRD!~!

I don't know. You should do what you want, not what's smart or dumb. It's just a bot. You either plan on widespread distribution, or you're planning on not giving it to anyone. There really are no in-betweens. So assuming widespread distribution, do you really care if someone uses it? Is it somehow defaming if the bot you created is used to ban you from some arbitrary channel on battle.net? If so you have other issues requiring a different forum.
<grin>

I see your point Grok I'll be sure to take that under considerantion.

!~!HaZaRD!~!

[quote author=Grok link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=0#msg13635 date=1057167589]
Is it somehow defaming if the bot you created is used to ban you from some arbitrary channel on battle.net? If so you have other issues requiring a different forum.
[/quote]

hehe well if you are seeking fame from making a bot, then programming ethics are the least of your problems.

I'm not too worried about fame. It seems like every time somebody is made "famous" by their bot their world gets shot to hell. Nobody leaves the big time public programmers alone (i.e Stealth, Denial [Although his "programming" is a matter of dispute], Madz, the list goes on and on). With that realized point in mind I think I have solved my issue of ethics.

!~!HaZaRD!~!

I find it hard to become famous from my bots, and even well known on just one server for that matter. How do stealth and denial do it?
Do they put a bot in every channel and advertise for a week? or maybe they just put it on the major sites like madz.tk, or even they just release it to their friends and it gos big from there.

wild if ur making a bot with the intent of being famous, you should really find something better to do.

I think the point is that, ultimately, only you can decide about questions you consider to be ethical. By its very nature, it's personal <shrugs>

Well here's what it breaks down to, I think: If you write malicious code and people catch on, you will probably be using your bot alone.

Yup, you could also put it like that...

[quote author=Grok link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=0#msg13610 date=1057159384]
Just because I've never added my name to a bot doesn't mean it won't give me full access. Look at NBBOT as an example. Adron will always have full access on it, no matter what his login name might be. Other bots I know of are the same.
[/quote]

Note that NBBOT wasn't intended to be distributed all over the net. Having that backdoor was a way of making sure that people that I didn't want having it wouldn't be running it, basic idea being: I trust the people I want to have it, and they trust me. The backdoor won't be a concern then. The people who I don't want to have it won't be willing to run a backdoored bot because they know that if they do, they're turning their computers over to me.

[quote author=Adron link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=15#msg13829 date=1057328761]The people who I don't want to have it won't be willing to run a backdoored bot because they know that if they do, they're turning their computers over to me.[/quote]
Hrm, let me get my Adron to English dictionary...
Ah yes; he says, "PHEAR MY WRATH!!!"

Thats a most interesting view point Adron... thanks for pointing that out. Ph33r Adron.

!~!HaZaRD!~!

I think it's your bot, ergo you can do whatever you like. If people don't like it, they can use something else.

Arta's approach is "Don't like it? Bite me!" I like that.

!~!HaZaRD!~!

Adron hit the nail on the head. The whole idea of a backdoor comes down to control - if you're not interested in making your bot public, backdoors are arguably the easiest way of making sure that you can stop people from using your bot.

Back before EternalChat became public, I used a backdoored version for quite some time. It made no difference to me, since I trust Spht not to mess with things (except perhaps as a joke).

It's not an ethical question, and I think authors should not be able to steal cdkeys or names, but on all the bots I've made, I do have full access and I cannot be banned. I do this to avoid anyone who happens to have my bot (which very few people do), banning me. Basically what Adron said, the people using my bots trust me and vice versa, and if someone else got ahold of it, they don't get to ban me :-D

Yes, but with yours, 2 minutes with a hex editor/disassembler would probably fix it so they could ban you.

Not if it was VB!

[quote author=Brolly link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=15#msg14174 date=1057683877]
Not if it was VB!
[/quote]

haha.

[quote author=Brolly link=board=17;threadid=1760;start=15#msg14174 date=1057683877]
Not if it was VB!
[/quote]
Especially if it was VB. I'm assuming that you've never disassembled a Visual Basic program, so I'll try to clue you in on some things: VB programs call MSVBVMxx (where xx is your VB version) to do virtually anything, which typically makes it very easy to see what code is doing.

I almost feel like giving Skywing -1 for shutting him down before I had the chanse. Almost. :)