What's a couple good programming languages that are worth going to college for?..as in still going to be around, obviously remodeled, in 10 years.

C

Most colleges right now tend to mess around with Java, and C++, I think.

C/C++ will be around forever.  Java is popular but nasty.  who wants to install another extra program and more (talking about java it self here) just to run a single program.  not like you have to install c++ on your computer windows comes with all the runtime libraries

Java isn't that bad if you step out of the stone ages for a second. How many other languages require 'extra programs' before they work properly? Plenty of popular ones do.

[quote author=UserLoser link=topic=17431.msg177500#msg177500 date=1207674551]
who wants to install another extra program and more (talking about java it self here) just to run a single program.  not like you have to install c++ on your computer windows comes with all the runtime libraries[/quote]

errrr

But, on a side note, you probably won't get to choose to goto school for any specific language of your choice. In my bs comp. sci. degree plan, most courses use Java until you get to the upper level courses, and there you're introduced to C++. There's only one course where you get to choose any language you want, and you have to make some semester long project with it.

Same here, the first two comp sci. courses both teach Java.

[quote author=UserLoser link=topic=17431.msg177500#msg177500 date=1207674551]
C/C++ will be around forever.  Java is popular but nasty.  who wants to install another extra program and more (talking about java it self here) just to run a single program.  not like you have to install c++ on your computer windows comes with all the runtime libraries
[/quote]Same reasoning goes for .NET languages... plus they update the runtime package every few years, and it always seems to be bigger...

The nice thing about Java is it's quite similar to C-based languages. The nicer thing about C is there are lots of languages based on it. It's like Latin: you suddenly can sort of understand a lot of languages that didn't make sense before.

For me it's a concept, thing. Syntax is just something you can pick up as you go, as long as you understand fundamental concepts of programming. Most of us here understand these concepts, but there's people out there that literally can't even comprehend programming at all.

C++ does make it a little easy to see these concepts in action. Higher level languages sort of hide certain things, because a lot of stuff "just works." I think if I were going to recommend a first language to somebody, I'd say Java because it's more friendly than C++, at first, but still gives you that nice syntax introduction. (probably why schools choose to use it)

I've often wonder if there's any 'cutting edge' programming languages out there right now, though. I remember when C# was first being introduced, and I was like "no way it'll ever become popular."

[quote author=Andy link=topic=17431.msg177505#msg177505 date=1207681909]
[quote author=UserLoser link=topic=17431.msg177500#msg177500 date=1207674551]
C/C++ will be around forever.  Java is popular but nasty.  who wants to install another extra program and more (talking about java it self here) just to run a single program.  not like you have to install c++ on your computer windows comes with all the runtime libraries
[/quote]Same reasoning goes for .NET languages... plus they update the runtime package every few years, and it always seems to be bigger...

The nice thing about Java is it's quite similar to C-based languages. The nicer thing about C is there are lots of languages based on it. It's like Latin: you suddenly can sort of understand a lot of languages that didn't make sense before.
[/quote]

.NET ships by default with Windows from Vista on. That's not really an issue moving forward, and even so the runtime is not that big. The SDK may be, but the runtime is pretty small.

While Dial up connection statistics may be dropping, I was on it for long enough to continue to pity those who are still on it now (15%?). I suppose that biases my judgment a little.

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=17431.msg177516#msg177516 date=1207694061]
.NET ships by default with Windows from Vista on. That's not really an issue moving forward, and even so the runtime is not that big. The SDK may be, but the runtime is pretty small.
[/quote]
Based on what?  3.5 on an OOB XPSP2 machine was 63mb for the downloaded "live" installer and 197mb for the "offline" installer; Java's offline installer was only 15.7mb.

That doesn't change my opinion that C# is a great programming language or that .NET is a great framework.  But let's be realistic.

A saw a lot of replies of C++. I talked to my professor today and he said that colleges tend to focus on C# rather than C++ to try to lure students away from the malicious possibilities that come with knowledge of C++. That's how it seems to be with Purdue. Does that seem to be true in your area/college?

[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177527#msg177527 date=1207703749]
A saw a lot of replies of C++. I talked to my professor today and he said that colleges tend to focus on C# rather than C++ to try to lure students away from the malicious possibilities that come with knowledge of C++. That's how it seems to be with Purdue. Does that seem to be true in your area/college?
[/quote]

Arizona State has classes geared mostly towards Java and C#.

[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177527#msg177527 date=1207703749]
A saw a lot of replies of C++. I talked to my professor today and he said that colleges tend to focus on C# rather than C++ to try to lure students away from the malicious possibilities that come with knowledge of C++. That's how it seems to be with Purdue. Does that seem to be true in your area/college?
[/quote]

Everyone here is going to try to push their own agenda. Java is the primary teaching language at universities. Furthermore, for better or worse, most mainstream language developments these days are based on Java. You can't go wrong with Java.

This is coming from a sophomore at Cornell currently taking grad CS courses.

[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177527#msg177527 date=1207703749]
A saw a lot of replies of C++. I talked to my professor today and he said that colleges tend to focus on C# rather than C++ to try to lure students away from the malicious possibilities that come with knowledge of C++. That's how it seems to be with Purdue. Does that seem to be true in your area/college?
[/quote]
I go to purdue and it seems that all my engineering courses have C/++ mainly integrated with it.

[quote author=Banana fanna fo fanna link=topic=17431.msg177550#msg177550 date=1207789508]
[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177527#msg177527 date=1207703749]
A saw a lot of replies of C++. I talked to my professor today and he said that colleges tend to focus on C# rather than C++ to try to lure students away from the malicious possibilities that come with knowledge of C++. That's how it seems to be with Purdue. Does that seem to be true in your area/college?
[/quote]

Everyone here is going to try to push their own agenda. Java is the primary teaching language at universities. Furthermore, for better or worse, most mainstream language developments these days are based on Java. You can't go wrong with Java.

This is coming from a sophomore at Cornell currently taking grad CS courses.
[/quote]

As much as I like C#, I'd tend to agree. Once you know Java though, C# is a cakewalk.

The APCS test is in Java, so eh, I guess it is.

[quote author=Banana fanna fo fanna link=topic=17431.msg177550#msg177550 date=1207789508]
This is coming from a sophomore at Cornell currently taking grad CS courses.
[/quote]
Oh, sorry.  My stuff is coming from an actual grad student taking actual grad CS courses at Arizona State.  Me.

Are you two seriously dropping school names, and what year you are in college, now? lol.

Be real. It's obviously going to be different depending on whatever university you attend. In fact, everything said in this thread applies to mine. There are courses that focus on C++, and others on Java. I haven't seen one for C#, but I do know there's one that allows you to choose whichever language you want, and then you get to use it throughout the semester. There's even Visual Basic courses!

I'm sorry to burst a bubble, or two, but being a computer science student at x university doesn't make your degree plan any sort of standard.

Besides, I prefer the very comfortable, holy war topic of why emacs sucks, and vim owns

[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=17431.msg177561#msg177561 date=1207809111]
[quote author=Banana fanna fo fanna link=topic=17431.msg177550#msg177550 date=1207789508]
This is coming from a sophomore at Cornell currently taking grad CS courses.
[/quote]
Oh, sorry.  My stuff is coming from an actual grad student taking actual grad CS courses at Arizona State.  Me.
[/quote]

I wasn't trying to be a douchebag, douchebag. Just trying to separate my/ourselves from the RealityRipples of the world.

[quote author=UserLoser link=topic=17431.msg177500#msg177500 date=1207674551]
not like you have to install c++ on your computer windows comes with all the runtime libraries
[/quote]

This hasn't been true for a while.  The Visual C++ .NET 2003 and Visual C++ .NET 2005 C and C++ runtimes aren't present on Windows XP, even with all optional updates applied.  It's the vendor's responsibility to statically link the runtimes or distribute them with the application.

[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177527#msg177527 date=1207703749]
I talked to my professor today and he said that colleges tend to focus on C# rather than C++ to try to lure students away from the malicious possibilities that come with knowledge of C++. That's how it seems to be with Purdue. Does that seem to be true in your area/college?
[/quote]

What drugs are they feeding your professors?  "Malicious possibilities" that come with C++?

My recommendation, for what it's worth: pick up Java and C++.  You'll almost certainly need Java to get through college, and having both C++ and Java will be a big help when you get to the real world.  The Microsoft .NET languages are just a Java rip-off anyway, so learning Java is a good first step to mastering .NET if you need to do that. ;)

[quote author=Kp link=topic=17431.msg177572#msg177572 date=1207885512]
What drugs are they feeding your professors?  "Malicious possibilities" that come with C++?
[/quote]

I think he meant the possibility for exploitation in native versus managed languages. There's a lot of potential for security flaws due to the powerful nature of the language.

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=17431.msg177574#msg177574 date=1207887692]
[quote author=Kp link=topic=17431.msg177572#msg177572 date=1207885512]
What drugs are they feeding your professors?  "Malicious possibilities" that come with C++?
[/quote]

I think he meant the possibility for exploitation in native versus managed languages. There's a lot of potential for security flaws due to the powerful nature of the language.
[/quote]

I guess. That's a shitty reason for ignoring C++, though.

people just got lazy over time and java started looking real nice.

[quote author=Banana fanna fo fanna link=topic=17431.msg177576#msg177576 date=1207888532]
[quote author=Warrior link=topic=17431.msg177574#msg177574 date=1207887692]
[quote author=Kp link=topic=17431.msg177572#msg177572 date=1207885512]
What drugs are they feeding your professors?  "Malicious possibilities" that come with C++?
[/quote]

I think he meant the possibility for exploitation in native versus managed languages. There's a lot of potential for security flaws due to the powerful nature of the language.
[/quote]

I guess. That's a shitty reason for ignoring C++, though.
[/quote]

You're right, there's much better reasons to avoid it ;).

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=17431.msg177579#msg177579 date=1207890094]
[quote author=Banana fanna fo fanna link=topic=17431.msg177576#msg177576 date=1207888532]
[quote author=Warrior link=topic=17431.msg177574#msg177574 date=1207887692]
[quote author=Kp link=topic=17431.msg177572#msg177572 date=1207885512]
What drugs are they feeding your professors?  "Malicious possibilities" that come with C++?
[/quote]

I think he meant the possibility for exploitation in native versus managed languages. There's a lot of potential for security flaws due to the powerful nature of the language.
[/quote]

I guess. That's a shitty reason for ignoring C++, though.
[/quote]

You're right, there's much better reasons to avoid it ;).
[/quote]

indeed

[quote author=FrostWraith link=topic=17431.msg177555#msg177555 date=1207794687]
[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177527#msg177527 date=1207703749]
A saw a lot of replies of C++. I talked to my professor today and he said that colleges tend to focus on C# rather than C++ to try to lure students away from the malicious possibilities that come with knowledge of C++. That's how it seems to be with Purdue. Does that seem to be true in your area/college?
[/quote]
I go to purdue and it seems that all my engineering courses have C/++ mainly integrated with it.
[/quote]

Ahh yeah most of our engineering classes teach a little bit of C++. Well thanks for all of your answers. I'm going to go through them again, and do a little more research within my own college as to what classes are offered. Thanks again.

FWIW, I'd recommend picking up Java or C#.  While I think C# has a generally cleaner syntax, as learning purposes go, they'll teach you far more about object-oriented programming than C++ will, at least while you're learning.  I don't think I'd be nearly as effective a C++ programmer today if I didn't have that background.

I know I'm bumping a 4-month old post, but I'll do it anyway.  I've been doing Java programming for about 3 years.  This summer I got into C# a lot more, and while not far into it, I have some preferences already.

The biggest difference for me so far, is creating and consuming C# accessor and mutator methods feel a lot more natural than in Java.  Perhaps my bias comes from having used classic VB for years, but I just don't like
Java's:
  MyObject.setMyProperty(value)
  value=MyObject.getMyProperty()
as much as
C#'s:
  MyObject.MyProperty = value;
  value = MyObject.MyProperty

With Java, you end up with twice the number of method names than in C#, creating the impression that your classes are a lot more complicated than necessary.

Oh and a pet peeve, most Java book authors frequently mistake PascalCase for camelCase when discussing naming conventions.

[quote author=UserLoser link=topic=17431.msg177500#msg177500 date=1207674551]
C/C++ will be around forever.  Java is popular but nasty.  who wants to install another extra program and more (talking about java it self here) just to run a single program.  not like you have to install c++ on your computer windows comes with all the runtime libraries
[/quote]

You mean I have to install libc? Madness!

[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177493#msg177493 date=1207647286]
What's a couple good programming languages that are worth going to college for?..as in still going to be around, obviously remodeled, in 10 years.
[/quote]

1: Fuck all the idiots here who contradict themselves (UserLoser) and say Java is nasty. Installing the runtime for Java is no different in theory than having the runtimes for C++ installed with the Operating system (forgot about .net?)
They have different scopes, obviously but just as often as you'll need a more efficient language like C++ for the system, you would need something as scalable as Java which doesnt need to be ported.. I mean who needs that, its so easy to port code and manage simultanious releases for windows and linux. Right?

2: You're going about this all wrong. You're supposed to go to college to learn the fundamentals, not to find a language you'll be able to "stick" with. Thats the whole problem people are stuck in America now. Nothings is static... projections are nice but you need to be able to adapt, and once you learn one language (and actually understand programming.. cough cough) you should be able to start picking up more languages. Have people forgotten about the meaning of learning "yet another language"?
Anyways, lesson is you need to be adaptable... if you hope to find a good job that is and be competitive.

Hostile for the win.

[quote author=Hostile link=topic=17431.msg179317#msg179317 date=1218686618]
[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177493#msg177493 date=1207647286]
What's a couple good programming languages that are worth going to college for?..as in still going to be around, obviously remodeled, in 10 years.
[/quote]

1: Fuck all the idiots here who contradict themselves (UserLoser) and say Java is nasty. Installing the runtime for Java is no different in theory than having the runtimes for C++ installed with the Operating system (forgot about .net?)
They have different scopes, obviously but just as often as you'll need a more efficient language like C++ for the system, you would need something as scalable as Java which doesnt need to be ported.. I mean who needs that, its so easy to port code and manage simultanious releases for windows and linux. Right?

2: You're going about this all wrong. You're supposed to go to college to learn the fundamentals, not to find a language you'll be able to "stick" with. Thats the whole problem people are stuck in America now. Nothings is static... projections are nice but you need to be able to adapt, and once you learn one language (and actually understand programming.. cough cough) you should be able to start picking up more languages. Have people forgotten about the meaning of learning "yet another language"?
Anyways, lesson is you need to be adaptable... if you hope to find a good job that is and be competitive.
[/quote]

blah blah blah blah.... relax

[quote author=chyea link=topic=17431.msg179319#msg179319 date=1218690177]
[quote author=Hostile link=topic=17431.msg179317#msg179317 date=1218686618]
[quote author=Huendin link=topic=17431.msg177493#msg177493 date=1207647286]
What's a couple good programming languages that are worth going to college for?..as in still going to be around, obviously remodeled, in 10 years.
[/quote]

1: Fuck all the idiots here who contradict themselves (UserLoser) and say Java is nasty. Installing the runtime for Java is no different in theory than having the runtimes for C++ installed with the Operating system (forgot about .net?)
They have different scopes, obviously but just as often as you'll need a more efficient language like C++ for the system, you would need something as scalable as Java which doesnt need to be ported.. I mean who needs that, its so easy to port code and manage simultanious releases for windows and linux. Right?

2: You're going about this all wrong. You're supposed to go to college to learn the fundamentals, not to find a language you'll be able to "stick" with. Thats the whole problem people are stuck in America now. Nothings is static... projections are nice but you need to be able to adapt, and once you learn one language (and actually understand programming.. cough cough) you should be able to start picking up more languages. Have people forgotten about the meaning of learning "yet another language"?
Anyways, lesson is you need to be adaptable... if you hope to find a good job that is and be competitive.
[/quote]

blah blah blah blah.... relax
[/quote]

Congrats on finding something lame to say to one of the most sensible posts in this thread?

[quote author=Hostile link=topic=17431.msg179317#msg179317 date=1218686618]
2: You're going about this all wrong. You're supposed to go to college to learn the fundamentals, not to find a language you'll be able to "stick" with. Thats the whole problem people are stuck in America now. Nothings is static... projections are nice but you need to be able to adapt, and once you learn one language (and actually understand programming.. cough cough) you should be able to start picking up more languages. Have people forgotten about the meaning of learning "yet another language"?
Anyways, lesson is you need to be adaptable... if you hope to find a good job that is and be competitive.
[/quote]
This is very true.  I remember when all I knew was C#....  Now I feel comfortable developing in C/C++, Java, and Visual Basic.  But here's a good example of that:

So I still mostly develop in C# because I like it and my job permits it.  But this latest project that I was on, we had to interoperate with a hardware vendor who had C++-based driver and interface software.  At one point their jackass programmer couldn't figure out what setting he was breaking when writing out a file, and after two days, I finally said, "Look, just let me see the code, I'll find the error and help you fix it."  Sure enough, within about 10 minutes of debugging, we tracked it down.

The end result: I got two new job offers as a result of the project, and a raise and a promotion at my current job.

Knowing this craft is more important than knowing the nuances of a language and the library.  I certainly don't know STL like the back of my hand, for example; but I know where to look and how to look for the right information.  But there isn't a place to look for "How do I fix an error in which a '0' is being written to an INI file?"  The truth is, you have to be writing software in order to get good at writing software.

[quote author=Yegg link=topic=17431.msg179320#msg179320 date=1218696177]
Congrats on finding something lame to say to one of the most sensible posts in this thread?
[/quote]

What? I agree with what he said. I still think he could relax a little, though.