http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7121025.stm

Islam isn't a violent religion, srsly u guise!

I've got an idea, let's arrest a British schoolteacher for letting some kids name a teddy bear "mohammad", I'm sure god wouldn't mind if we execute her by firing squad.

Judaism is historically very violent, excessive, and unnecessary

All religions have terrible histories. Even Mormons massacred people.

    Every religion was violent to a point. But this is now. We are in the present. History, while still being true and irreversable, doesn't have to continue on with the Muslims as well. They are people just like us, with common sense just like us, with faith, a soul, and morality just like us. All of these qualitys however, are being blinded by their [over]commitment to their faith. Using this common sense that they undoubtably have, they could easily deduct that an innocent outsider who does not know the law of their land naming a toy bear after their prophet does not warrant death. Any human who truly, honestly believes that, is not a human. Without morality, what are we? Animals? I think it's already too radical with their current sentence (14 days in prison), let alone being shot to death in a firing squad.
   What they do is radical to the rest of us, but we never really knew. Other civilizations didn't have a chance to realize the wastefulness of Judaism's massacres, for example, because there was no way TO know. News was slow back then. People didn't get every itty-bitty detail about these small isolated instances that build up to paint an entirely different picture of what's really going on.
    If someone could step in and help these poor muslims who are blinded from the truth, it should be us ourselves. Doing so would help us see from their point of view, they'd see from ours, lives will be saved, everyone wins. I do understand this has happened many other times before with many other religions. That doesn't mean it must happen again, we have the power to stop it now.

[quote author=brew link=topic=17195.msg175138#msg175138 date=1196518761]
If someone could step in and help these poor muslims who are blinded from the truth,
[/quote]
Truth? What is truth? Truth to them can be very different from what we believe to be true.

[quote author=Falcon[anti-yL] link=topic=17195.msg175140#msg175140 date=1196526596]
Truth? What is truth? Truth to them can be very different from what we believe to be true.
[/quote]
The real truth which lies outside of their religious beliefs, one which lies in the conscience. Killing people is almost never justifiable. If we were brought up in a jungle, and never taught that killing was wrong, wouldn't we still feel regret for what we've done?

[quote author=brew link=topic=17195.msg175141#msg175141 date=1196528502]
[quote author=Falcon[anti-yL] link=topic=17195.msg175140#msg175140 date=1196526596]
Truth? What is truth? Truth to them can be very different from what we believe to be true.
[/quote]
The real truth which lies outside of their religious beliefs, one which lies in the conscience. Killing people is almost never justifiable. If we were brought up in a jungle, and never taught that killing was wrong, wouldn't we still feel regret for what we've done?
[/quote]
Maybe or maybe not, you can't say that because you were'nt brought up that way.

1) Not everyone has common sense.
2) Keep your "faith" to yourself.
3) Souls do not exist. There is no scientific proof behind them. There is nothing to even hint they may exist.
4) Morality differs from person to person. There is no universal moral code, and anyone who thinks there is is either an idiot follower or a control freak.
5) We are animals, you idiot. Don't ever try to differentiate yourself from any other creature on this planet.
6) There is no such thing as "truth". To use the Latin words for "yes", Ita Vero. In this way, true. Truth depends completely upon circumstance. Life is not black and white.

[quote author=Falcon[anti-yL] link=topic=17195.msg175142#msg175142 date=1196529197]
[quote author=brew link=topic=17195.msg175141#msg175141 date=1196528502]
[quote author=Falcon[anti-yL] link=topic=17195.msg175140#msg175140 date=1196526596]
Truth? What is truth? Truth to them can be very different from what we believe to be true.
[/quote]
The real truth which lies outside of their religious beliefs, one which lies in the conscience. Killing people is almost never justifiable. If we were brought up in a jungle, and never taught that killing was wrong, wouldn't we still feel regret for what we've done?
[/quote]
Maybe or maybe not, you can't say that because you were'nt brought up that way.
[/quote]

Gee i wonder who came up with the idea that killing people was bad. I guess the person who made up whether or not murder is right flipped a coin and since it was tails, it turned out to be a bad thing.

[quote]
4) Morality differs from person to person. There is no universal moral code, and anyone who thinks there is is either an idiot follower or a control freak.
[/quote]
It's not a yes or no answer. There are different levels of morality. I'm pretty sure a radical christian and a drug dealer both know that doing harm onto another person isn't very nice, they just judge it on a different level.

[quote]
3) Souls do not exist. There is no scientific proof behind them. There is nothing to even hint they may exist.
[/quote]
I know that, you fool. I just thought it sounded the best. What I really ought to have said was "a sentient mind".

[quote]
5) We are animals, you idiot. Don't ever try to differentiate yourself from any other creature on this planet.
[/quote]
Yeah, I ment animals that aren't as intelligent. Do you think a bear really gives a shit if he tears someone's eye out of his socket?

[quote]
6) There is no such thing as "truth". To use the Latin words for "yes", Ita Vero. In this way, true. Truth depends completely upon circumstance. Life is not black and white.
[/quote]

And by the way, there is no latin word for yes. Ita is just an encouraging word of affirmation. To make a true "yes", one would have to repeat the main verb of the question asked before. Example:
Spectasne brewi crinem?
Specto.

[quote author=brew link=topic=17195.msg175150#msg175150 date=1196558581]
Gee i wonder who came up with the idea that killing people was bad. I guess the person who made up whether or not murder is right flipped a coin and since it was tails, it turned out to be a bad thing.
[/quote]
What are you trying to prove? This "killing is bad" thing didn't even exist 200 years ago, when women could be accused of witchcraft and burned at the stake (go christianity), this is no different.

[quote author=Falcon[anti-yL] link=topic=17195.msg175152#msg175152 date=1196560527]
[quote author=brew link=topic=17195.msg175150#msg175150 date=1196558581]
Gee i wonder who came up with the idea that killing people was bad. I guess the person who made up whether or not murder is right flipped a coin and since it was tails, it turned out to be a bad thing.
[/quote]
What are you trying to prove? This "killing is bad" thing didn't even exist 200 years ago, when women could be accused of witchcraft and burned at the stake (go christianity), this is no different.
[/quote]
I'm talking about the human mind, on a deeper level, subconsiously (even if their view is skewed from their religion) knowing it's evil. If it wasn't, why don't people go around killing eachother for fun today?

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
-- Einstein

His point was, basically, that common sense isn't universal, and is often dangerous.

[quote author=brew link=topic=17195.msg175153#msg175153 date=1196567917]
If it wasn't, why don't people go around killing eachother for fun today?
[/quote]

Some do.  The rest of us declare such people to be murderers or serial killers and deal with them as dictated by our laws.  Certain basic actions must be forbidden for a society to function efficiently.  Whether you forbid them because they are "evil" or because it is simply very inconvenient for everyone else does not matter.  Consider what society would be like if murder was legal and did not require any reason to justify it.

[quote author=iago link=topic=17195.msg175155#msg175155 date=1196571179]
His point was, basically, that common sense isn't universal, and is often dangerous.
[/quote]
O tempora, O mores. We can't rely on Muslims to have common sense anymore. Is it the people? Or is it the religion. I would assume the only reason why they're so much more violent then other religions, with little to no tolerance for others, and the amount of time it's taking them to mature past that point is somehow tied in with the way it's presented.
I remember hearing from somewhere that religion is the greatest form of mind control. How true.

[quote author=brew link=topic=17195.msg175157#msg175157 date=1196573639]
[quote author=iago link=topic=17195.msg175155#msg175155 date=1196571179]
His point was, basically, that common sense isn't universal, and is often dangerous.
[/quote]
O tempora, O mores. We can't rely on Muslims to have common sense anymore. Is it the people? Or is it the religion. I would assume the only reason why they're so much more violent then other religions, with little to no tolerance for others, and the amount of time it's taking them to mature past that point is somehow tied in with the way it's presented.
I remember hearing from somewhere that religion is the greatest form of mind control. How true.
[/quote]
... You have no idea what you are talking about and should really stop posting.

[quote author=Falcon[anti-yL] link=topic=17195.msg175158#msg175158 date=1196575247]
... You have no idea what you are talking about and should really stop posting.
[/quote]
Oh please. We're supposed to be posting against muslims, not brews. Anywho.. You're right. I don't know the inner workings of their religion. But either they're really, really dumb, or there's something to their religion. All religions have their stages, starting out, growing, getting popular, then start some kind of age of violence, then there's the enlightenment, and muslims become peace loving. Christians and Jews for the most part have phased out this violence. When's the last time you've seen christian radicals hang some woman for a bullshit reason as in that article? IIRC they've been around much longer then Christianity, and we don't even do that anymore. And the name. "Islam" means "submission". If that's what they call their followers, one can only imagine what the rest of it is like. Having religious laws binded with real laws in most islamic countries doesn't help either. I'm sorry, Habeep, but you take your religion too seriously. You know what I really think? Fuck mohammad. Just don't track me down and suicide bomb my house now, ok?

Getting pissed off about someone naming a bear "Mohammed" isn't that different from Americans getting worked up about someone burning the U.S. flag or raising their own flag above it. Its pride or something like that. There is a lot more similarities but I just stated the obvious one to me.

[quote author=Falcon[anti-yL] link=topic=17195.msg175168#msg175168 date=1196613226]
Getting pissed off about someone naming a bear "Mohammed" isn't that different from Americans getting worked up about someone burning the U.S. flag or raising their own flag above it. Its pride or something like that. There is a lot more similarities but I just stated the obvious one to me.
[/quote]
Sure we get pissed off, but do we go around protesting at a court that he/she should be executed? That's a bit too much. They are exposed to too much violence, and they don't get the fact that violence does not solve problems, but creates newer, worse ones as well. I would have thought they've learned this from the crusades already.

You're still trying to impose your morals on an entirely different system.

There is no such thing as "good" or "evil" in a natural world. They are human invention, and are therefore dynamic and flexible. And ever heard of a Lynch Mob?

[quote author=Andy link=topic=17195.msg175172#msg175172 date=1196634208]
You're still trying to impose your morals on an entirely different system.

There is no such thing as "good" or "evil" in a natural world. They are human invention, and are therefore dynamic and flexible. And ever heard of a Lynch Mob?
[/quote]

If there is no innate sense of good and evil, why did most organized societies worldwide come up with stunningly similar codes of morality and ethics?

They haven't... Give me any large society, group, or organization and I'll give you instances of them either bending or outright ignoring their so-called "morals."

Even Jains, who are a devout form of Buddhists that wore masks over their faces and swept the ground before them to prevent killing anything, committed brutal killings.

The only group that ever got morals right are the Quakers.

If you can't accept the culture of Muslims, then you're gonna have a real problem when we face Aliens.

sorry brosephina, but most large organized societies have problems with murder and theft. hell, ever since agriculture came into the picture, a majority of them even support monogamy.