What features did you wish BNETDocs had?

Working-ness, perhaps?

If you're going to make a new documentation site, make the big ol mile long packet list a frame that only loads ONCE and has a vertical scroll. That's the most annoying part of bnetdocs ever.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171838#msg171838 date=1187823285]
If you're going to make a new documentation site, make the big ol mile long packet list a frame that only loads ONCE and has a vertical scroll. That's the most annoying part of bnetdocs ever.
[/quote]

I expressed this to Arta a while ago. Apparently his reason is that he doesn't want it to cache in case he adds new packets. Perhaps if it expired after 1 hour or so? Does HTTP have that feature?

He means a separate iframe for the navi
Anyways, http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/
No quite site for you, if you do it, do it big.
And yes, you can make the cache timeout. So mm
~Hdx

If you're going to call that BnetDocs, you better be giving credit where necessary.  More than half the messages on BnetDocs were revised by my self (excluding D2GS / UDP).  All of BotNet/BNLS, most of the MCP and BNCS messages I updated and revised.  If Arta and Kyro is an administrator on that "bnetdocs", than so am I because I am on the *real* BnetDocs.

Ah crap, Hdx, why did you have to go and give it all away? >.< Site wasn't ready for a full blown release... >.<

Ah well. What's done is done. Might as well deal with it now.

Brew, BNETDocs is already up. I took over what I presumed was an abandoned project. Arta was not responding to my queries about my taking over the project, so I had to do everything from stratch. So BNETDocs was reborn. Redux means reborn, thus BNETDocs Redux. It's a full blown site, and fully functional. Needs some work in certain areas though. The packets also need to be cleaned up badly. But otherwise the site is done. Enjoy the "working-ness", Brew.  :P

Andy, as to what you suggested, no need for a side frame. If you go to the site, you'll see I came up with a different solution to solve that very annoyance. :)

Joe, you misunderstood Andy. Andy was talking about the left side navigation menu that was listing all of the packets -- it was originally an extremely long list. That was on the old BNETDocs.

[quote author=UserLoser link=topic=16970.msg171850#msg171850 date=1187838000]
If you're going to call that BnetDocs, you better be giving credit where necessary.  More than half the messages on BnetDocs were revised by my self (excluding D2GS / UDP).  All of BotNet/BNLS, most of the MCP and BNCS messages I updated and revised.  If Arta and Kyro is an administrator on that "bnetdocs", than so am I because I am on the *real* BnetDocs.
[/quote]

UserLoser, three things:

1. You have an account over at BNETDocs Redux -- I ported it over, but you'll have to reset your password.
2. You already are an editor, so you still have the ability to edit packets.
3. Proper due credits have already been given.

Here's link to credits page, as displayed openly on the site:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=credits

And if you scroll to the bottom of ANY page ANYWHERE on the site, you'll see this copyright at the footer:

Site scripts and design copyrights reserved to Don Cullen.
Contents copyrighted to Blizzard and their parent corporation, Vivendi.
[u]Main credits for contents goes to Arta. View the rest of credits[/u].
Demented Minds copyrights reserved to Don Cullen 2003-present.
Copyright infringements will be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by law.
Please view our legal disclaimer and terms of service.

Even when you generate the variables for the packets, the generator adds this:

[quote]# PacketID Constants for PHP
# Generated by BNETDocs: Redux on August 22, 2007
# BNETDocs: Redux software written by Don Cullen AKA Kyro
# Original BNETDocs content compiled by Arta & Skywing[/quote]

Even when you view the legalism page containing the legal disclaimer and terms of service, at the bottom of the document, you'll see this:

BNETDocs©, BNETDocs Redux©, The Demented Minds©
The original BNETDocs site is copyrighted to Arta. BNETDocs Redux is copyrighted to the Demented Minds, and to Don Cullen AKA Kyro. BNETDocs Redux is copyrighted under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 License. Creative Commons License

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=legalism

So I think I most definitely am giving proper due credit. If you still think so otherwise after reading this, please do let me know via PM and I'll correct it.

Hdx had previously requested a full plain text version of BNETDocs Redux documentation, but Arta hadn't responded to his request. Someone else requested a simple downloadable version. Arta declined for version control reasons.

Fact is simple, I'm not Arta. And while Arta is an administrator of the new BNETDocs Redux, he's not coding it. He's not even on this project, although he is more than welcome to jump aboard, I fully respect his opinion, and his contributions. I have nothing but the highest admiration for him.

So I granted both requests, while solving Arta's concern. BNETDocs Redux now offers a full blown plain text version of the BNETDocs Redux documentation available for saving off-line. I think that pretty much fulfills both ideas. The plain text version of the documentation is completely dynamically generated, so there's always an up-to-date version available for downloading. This can be found at:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/generatedocs.php

Or just go to the BNETDocs Redux site at:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net

And click on the 'Download BNETDocs as Text' link in the left side navigation menu.

Enjoy, ya'all.

I saw your "different solution" and it still doesn't fix the problem, because showing the list of SID packets still makes the page a mile long. Also, see my list of problems with bnetdocs here. So far, this "redux" is exactly the same as bnetdocs but with a new skin. As a potential visitor, I'd rather use the old version because I know it better, since there's no difference in what your site has and what the original has besides a text-based copy which is useless for pretty much everyone but people who like text over gui.

Edit: Lemme give you an example on how to effectively create a full list of packets without taking up so much space:
First off, make the site in frames so the entire list doesn't load every time you open a new page. Frames do have uses, and this is one of them.
Secondly, make the frame that stores the list scroll vertically so you don't have to scroll the actual content out of sight.
Third, instead of listing every single packet twice for S>C and C>S, just make two links per line like so:
[0x00] SID_NULL (S>C) (C>S)
That drops your list length by nearly HALF.

Also, the top of the page is a HUGE waste of space. What the hell? You have a graphical logo with the name, you have a text version of the name, and together they take up a good 400 pixels.

Also, that font is fail.  And requiring javascript is stupid.

If he didn't have all the lists hidden, and had a better way of displaying them, he wouldn't need javascript. And which font? the SC-Like one?

The stupid Times New Roman.  It should be pleasing looking.  The lists should be in a monospace (ie Courier New), and the rest should be in a sans-serif (ie Arial).  Also, the text size is just plain too small.

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg171859#msg171859 date=1187848924]
The stupid Times New Roman.  It should be pleasing looking.  The lists should be in a monospace (ie Courier New), and the rest should be in a sans-serif (ie Arial).  Also, the text size is just plain too small.
[/quote]

Most browsers you can set an overiding font, and as far as the font's size try holding control and spin you're mouse wheel if you have one.

Complaining about a font is fairly pointless now adays unless a site uses a custom one that you would be forced to download etc, theirs plenty of ways to work around basic font and sizes on the users end if you don't like it change it on you're end.

Your HTML mailer is broken.

[quote]MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html;



Welcome!<br><br>You've registered as an user of BNETDocs Redux. If this email is in error, simply
                                      ignore this email.<br><br>Your information is as follows: <br><br>...[/quote]

[quote author=LordVader link=topic=16970.msg171869#msg171869 date=1187872236]
Most browsers you can set an overiding font, and as far as the font's size try holding control and spin you're mouse wheel if you have one.

Complaining about a font is fairly pointless now adays unless a site uses a custom one that you would be forced to download etc, theirs plenty of ways to work around basic font and sizes on the users end if you don't like it change it on you're end.
[/quote]How are Arial and Courier New "custom" fonts?  And I don't want to change the font for EVERY website, so I'm not setting overrides.  And I really don't feel like changing the size every time I go there.  The point of a website like BnetDocs Redux is to provide as much help as possible, and if that means overriding default fonts and changing render sizes, I say that website can burn in hell.

I agree the font is to small as well.
http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=csseditor
Bump everything up 4-6px and its all good.
~Hdx

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg171871#msg171871 date=1187886894]
[quote author=LordVader link=topic=16970.msg171869#msg171869 date=1187872236]
Most browsers you can set an overiding font, and as far as the font's size try holding control and spin you're mouse wheel if you have one.

Complaining about a font is fairly pointless now aday's unless a site uses a custom one that you would be forced to download etc, theirs plenty of ways to work around basic font and sizes on the users end if you don't like it change it on you're end.
[/quote]How are Arial and Courier New "custom" fonts?  And I don't want to change the font for EVERY website, so I'm not setting overrides.  And I really don't feel like changing the size every time I go there.  The point of a website like BnetDocs Redux is to provide as much help as possible, and if that means overriding default fonts and changing render sizes, I say that website can burn in hell.
[/quote]

Where in any of that do you see anything refering to any specific font (especially common ones) as being custom read/understand before you respond.

What was typed there and ment by the text was that people can use custom fonts(that a user may not have on their pc) and if no fallback font is specified would force the user to actually download/install the font(embeding it into the page etc), most ppl don't even know this is possible thankfully so you don't run into it often.
That is something to complain and gripe about, that specific font and size of it isn't tho.

There are browsers/plugins that allow you to over-ride specific sites so you don't have to do it globally btw.

[quote]Direct Access Denied. Nice try buddy![/quote]


Fail.  If you agree it's too small, why not set the default up a couple pixels?

Because I don't have access to.
And you need to login to access it as it's customizable theams.
~Hdx

Also some of the D2GS data is incorrect mostly the naming schemes.. someone should go thru and look thru + compare to this list:
http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/viewtopic.php?t=303771

One that i notice off hand is for example:

[quote]
Message ID: 0x2F

Message Name: D2GS_NPCHEAL

Message Status: RAW, NEW PACKET

Direction: Client -> Server (Sent)

Used By: Diablo II, Diablo

Format: (DWORD) Unused(DWORD) NPC ID

Remarks: Heals the player through the specified NPC. Please note: This message's official name is not known, and has been invented.
[/quote]

That should more correctly be refered to as NPCTalk or NPCChat happens once and only after you have sent an 0x13 packet to actually click the npc, and then you choose "talk" that is the 2f packet.
And also the first dword is entity kind, you can see more info about that also in the EON packet list.

C->S
0x2F - Initiate entity chat - 2F [DWORD Entity Kind] [DWORD Entity ID]

*Update:
The different Entity types:
[quote]
Entities
--------

00 - Players
01 - Monsters, NPCs, and Mercenaries
02 - Stash, Waypoint, Chests, Corpses, and other objects.
03 - Missiles
04 - Items
05 - Entrances
[/quote]

*Edit: cleaned up and added a little.

*Update: I was mistaken the example above isn't directly in responce to clicking talk on an NPC it actually indicates that you are now interacting with an NPC (after 0x13) ..
A dialog window is opened at this state and is prior to any choices being made(talk/trade etc).
More correctly could be labled as D2GS_NPCINIT or D2GS_NPCSESSIONSTART or something.

Make a W3GS section :D

Whoa. Alot of responses. I'll respond to each one in the order of oldest to most recent posts.

[quote]I saw your "different solution" and it still doesn't fix the problem, because showing the list of SID packets still makes the page a mile long. Also, see my list of problems with bnetdocs here. So far, this "redux" is exactly the same as bnetdocs but with a new skin. As a potential visitor, I'd rather use the old version because I know it better, since there's no difference in what your site has and what the original has besides a text-based copy which is useless for pretty much everyone but people who like text over gui.[/quote]

Andy-- your solution is putting up a frame. And I do not feel comfortable with the idea of using a frame. You say you'd rather use the old version -- that's the kicker of it. The old version no longer exists. The copies of it that exist on the web, while they retain the data, are extremely crippled. If you'd like to keep using those crippled copies rather than use BNETDocs Redux, go ahead. That's your choice. I respect that.

[quote]Third, instead of listing every single packet twice for S>C and C>S, just make two links per line like so:
[0x00] SID_NULL (S>C) (C>S)
That drops your list length by nearly HALF.[/quote]

Good idea, that. Now that's exactly what I call constructive criticism -- identifying a problem, and offering a solution. That idea has been added to my to-do list. I most definitely will be implementing that. Shouldn't be too hard to change the code to that format.

[quote]Also, the top of the page is a HUGE waste of space. What the hell? You have a graphical logo with the name, you have a text version of the name, and together they take up a good 400 pixels.[/quote]

Heh, yes. I apologize. That was a bug in the CSS code. I hadn't realized I forgot to update the CSS for the default CSS. There should only be a graphical logo, and no text logo. The text logo was there mainly for the low-fi css theme that is available for selection in the css theme editor. In any case, thanks for pointing that out, I just fixed the error.

[quote]Also, that font is fail.  And requiring javascript is stupid.[/quote]

Rabbit-- you can change the font in the CSS Theme Editor. If you don't have an account yet, register, then click on CSS Theme Editor in the left side navigation menu. Then go ahead and edit the CSS to change the font to what you prefer. As for requiring javascript, it hardly is required. You can just disable javascript on your browser. The site will work just fine without it.

EDIT: I just disabled javascript on my browser, and saw the problem, the packet groups will not expand, due to javascript being disabled. This is a problem. I apologize for this. I will modify the code so if javascript is disabled on a browser, the menus will remain expanded. This has been added to my to-do list. Thanks for pointing out this problem, Rabbit. :)

[quote author=Camel link=topic=16970.msg171870#msg171870 date=1187886018]
Your HTML mailer is broken.

[quote]MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html;



Welcome!<br><br>You've registered as an user of BNETDocs Redux. If this email is in error, simply
                                      ignore this email.<br><br>Your information is as follows: <br><br>...[/quote]
[/quote]

Interesting, I thought I had fixed that glitch. Thanks for pointing it out. It has been added to my to-do list to be fixed. Once again, I appreciate bringing it to my attention! :)

LordVader, Rabbit, no need to change the font settings on your browser or download some random plugin to change the fonts on BNETDocs Redux. There's a reason why I put in the CSS Theme Editor. Just register, and modify the CSS to display the size and type of font that you like. That way, BNETDocs Redux will be styled exactly the way you like it, and you won't have to make global changes. Guess that means BNETDocs Redux doesn't have to burn in hell. ;)

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg171876#msg171876 date=1187890772]
[quote]Direct Access Denied. Nice try buddy![/quote]
Fail.  If you agree it's too small, why not set the default up a couple pixels?
[/quote]

It's because you aren't logged in. Log in. If you don't have an account, register, then login. You'll be able to access the page then. The reason for requiring an account in order to be able to use the CSS Theme editor is because when an user modifies the CSS, that CSS is applied on a per user basis, so any changes in the CSS is saved to that user's account. Once you're in the CSS Theme Editor, go ahead and bump it up a few pixels.

[quote author=LordVader link=topic=16970.msg171878#msg171878 date=1187892692]
Also some of the D2GS data is incorrect mostly the naming schemes.. someone should go thru and look thru + compare to this list:
http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/viewtopic.php?t=303771[/quote]

If you like, you can register and I'll add editing capabilities to your account so you can fix the inaccuracies. :)

[quote author=iCe link=topic=16970.msg171879#msg171879 date=1187895427]
Make a W3GS section :D
[/quote]

I apologize for my lack of knowledge, but what is W3GS? How does everyone feel about the addition of a W3GS section? If there's a general consensus that it should be added, I'll be more than happy to add the section. :)

Whew, that wraps up all of the responses. If you guys find any more errors/bugs/glitches, feel free to point them out. If you have criticism, constructive criticism (criticize, then offer ideas to resolve the problem) is always welcome. If you have suggestions/ideas, those are also always welcome.

War3 Game Server would be my guess. And what's wrong with using a frame if it prevents having to load a huge list of packets every time you load a new page?

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171881#msg171881 date=1187900818]
War3 Game Server would be my guess. And what's wrong with using a frame if it prevents having to load a huge list of packets every time you load a new page?
[/quote]

Frames are generally bad mojo can be done well and if done well i have no problems with frames, prevent people from loading other sites/pages into the diff frames and or break out of them etc.

Most ppl don't take that into consideration tho and frames are frowned apon in most instances for that reason.

Not to mention the fact that alot of ppl simply wrap a frame around pages that don't actually exist on their site and try to pass it off as their own..

So don't take ppl reacting harshly in regards to frames to seriously if you know what you're doing I say go for it.
They just have a bad rep, most ppl do a really piss poor job with them so meh, is all in the details as usual.

@Don Cullen, thx for that I will probably do that (*edit just did that, account is LordVader) =)

Very neat btw how each user is able to alter the style sheet for their own preferences, that is fairly unique..
Did you create that or is it apart of a CMS or something?

The login page reports a SQL syntax error.

So what you're saying is that only people that register can make the site not painful to read?  That's a bad idea right there.

Anyways, I've been poking around the CSS editor and I've noticed a few things:
1. Changes I make revert to the default after I hit the Render button.
2. The box gets big instead of scrolling.  Very annoying.
3. The site doesn't remember Open state of packet lists when using certain links.

[quote](DWORD) Protocol ID (0)(DWORD) Platform ID (DWORD) Product ID (DWORD) Version Byte(DWORD) Product language(DWORD) Local IP for NAT compatibility*(DWORD) Time zone bias*(DWORD) Locale ID*(DWORD) Language ID*(STRING) Country abreviation (STRING) Country[/quote]

Only problem I've found so far is that the packet structure is not properly displayed for readability anyway. ^

[quote author=Chriso.de link=topic=16970.msg171889#msg171889 date=1187912271]
[quote](DWORD) Protocol ID (0)(DWORD) Platform ID (DWORD) Product ID (DWORD) Version Byte(DWORD) Product language(DWORD) Local IP for NAT compatibility*(DWORD) Time zone bias*(DWORD) Locale ID*(DWORD) Language ID*(STRING) Country abreviation (STRING) Country[/quote]

Only problem I've found so far is that the packet structure is not properly displayed for readability anyway. ^
[/quote]

i think that's only on 0x50

Its alot of them. Its just a side effect of copy/paste. I'll poke around and fix some tonight.
~Hdx

Apart from that though, good job :)

[quote author=LordVader link=topic=16970.msg171883#msg171883 date=1187902628]
@Don Cullen, thx for that I will probably do that (*edit just did that, account is LordVader) =)

Very neat btw how each user is able to alter the style sheet for their own preferences, that is fairly unique..
Did you create that or is it apart of a CMS or something?
[/quote]

Your account has just been given editing capabalities. As for the ability of users to alter the css for their own preferences, the idea was from Arta. He was going to implement it in BNETDocs, but BNETDocs never re-emerged. I thought it was a pretty good idea, so I coded it myself from stratch. So yes, I created it, and it's not a part of any CMS. The entire BNETDocs Redux system was coded from stratch.

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg171885#msg171885 date=1187906565]
So what you're saying is that only people that register can make the site not painful to read?  That's a bad idea right there.

Anyways, I've been poking around the CSS editor and I've noticed a few things:
1. Changes I make revert to the default after I hit the Render button.
2. The box gets big instead of scrolling.  Very annoying.
3. The site doesn't remember Open state of packet lists when using certain links.
[/quote]

Actually, no, what I'm saying is, each user can adjust the site to their own preferences. If you make an improvement in the CSS you think should be made as the global default, please feel free to let me know, and if it does look better, I'll gladly change the default CSS to the new CSS code.

As for your list of problems, thanks for pointing them out! I'll respond to each one in order of mentioned. For #1, yes, I had just noticed that too. I'm not quite sure why it's doing that, most of the time, it works, but in certain cases, it doesn't. It's already on my to-do list to be fixed. It's a most strange glitch... For #2, thanks for the suggestion. I originally had implemented auto-expand because it seemed like a good idea at the time, but now it's just plan annoying. So I'll remove it. Added to to-do list. For #3, yes, that's an on-going problem. I'm still working on trying to figure out a solution for it to remember the open state for all pages, no matter what link is clicked on.

Edit: Rabbit, in regards to #2 (textbox auto-expand), that has been removed. Thanks for pointing it out.

[quote author=Chriso.de link=topic=16970.msg171889#msg171889 date=1187912271]
[quote](DWORD) Protocol ID (0)(DWORD) Platform ID (DWORD) Product ID (DWORD) Version Byte(DWORD) Product language(DWORD) Local IP for NAT compatibility*(DWORD) Time zone bias*(DWORD) Locale ID*(DWORD) Language ID*(STRING) Country abreviation (STRING) Country[/quote]

Only problem I've found so far is that the packet structure is not properly displayed for readability anyway. ^
[/quote]

Yea, it's like that for alot of the packets. The packets need to be checked and cleaned up. If you'd like to take a shot at cleaning them up, feel free to let me know. It's like what Hdx said:

[quote author=Hdx link=topic=16970.msg171894#msg171894 date=1187916256]
Its alot of them. Its just a side effect of copy/paste. I'll poke around and fix some tonight.
~Hdx
[/quote]

In other words, Hdx is right. It's just a side effect of copy/paste. I wrote a program in VB that harvested the packet data from a html-based bnetdocs that I had downloaded from Ersan (it can be found at http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/old/ ), which in turn got automatically converted by the program into a MySQL insert statement. I then popped it into the database. What you see is the unfortunate results. It did get the data in, but not neatly.

[quote author=Camel link=topic=16970.msg171884#msg171884 date=1187905677]
The login page reports a SQL syntax error.
[/quote]

Camel, there was a server crash, and I had to restore the site from backup. You unfortunately registered right after the backup was made, so your account doesn't exist anymore. Just a friendly notice if you'd like to re-register. As for it reporting a SQL syntax error, it shouldn't be showing an error, it should just say there's no such user. Mmm. That needs to be fixed. Added to to-do list. Thanks for letting me know.

Edit: Camel, I fixed the login error that you pointed out. It shouldn't error out anymore, although you still have to recreate your account...  :-\

As for the to-do list I keep mentioning, it can be found here:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11#11[quote author=Chriso.de link=topic=16970.msg171899#msg171899 date=1187919267]
Apart from that though, good job :)
[/quote]

Thanks. :)

As I see you're using the display:block and display:none system, I have a way to set them all to :block if javascript isn't enabled. First off, I assume you're using a toggle function (if you call it, it sets to :none if :block, and :block if :none). You set the tables(or whatever you're setting the display of) to block by default, and then down at the bottom of the page, add a <script type="text/javascript"> calling the toggle function for all the tables, thereby setting them to :none when the page first loads if javascript is enabled.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171905#msg171905 date=1187924747]
As I see you're using the display:block and display:none system, I have a way to set them all to :block if javascript isn't enabled. First off, I assume you're using a toggle function (if you call it, it sets to :none if :block, and :block if :none). You set the tables(or whatever you're setting the display of) to block by default, and then down at the bottom of the page, add a <script type="text/javascript"> calling the toggle function for all the tables, thereby setting them to :none when the page first loads if javascript is enabled.
[/quote]

That's pretty much how I was going to do it. The problem here is, I'm not very good at javascript. :-\

This is the javascript function that shows/hides the particular div's:

[code] function showhide(a,id){
if (document.getElementById){
obj = document.getElementById(id);
if (obj.style.display == "none"){
obj.style.display = "";
a.innerHTML = "HIDE";
UpdateLinks("rem");
pagecode = pagecode + getcode(id);
UpdateLinks("add");
} else {
obj.style.display = "none";
a.innerHTML = "SHOW";
UpdateLinks("rem");
pagecode = replaceAll(pagecode, getcode(id), "");
}
}
}[/code]

I'm not precisely sure how to make javascript go crawling through the div's to close them upon page load. When an user clicks on the 'SHOW' link, this is what that link would look like:

[code]a href="#" onclick="showhide(this, 'Battle.net Messages'); return(false);"[/code]

That's a bit excessive....
[code]  <script type="text/javascript">
  function showHide(inID)
  {
    if (document.getElementById(inID).style.display == 'none')
    {
    document.getElementById(inID).style.display = 'block';
    }
    else
    {
    document.getElementById(inID).style.display = 'none';
    }
  }
  </script>
[/code]
Then, you just call showHide("IDNAME") for every object that can be set...

Actually, I overhauled the javascript code. You can see it in action at:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=sandbox

Feel free to look at the source code for the javascript. Basically, the new javascript code takes a hit at two previously reported problems:

1. if javascript was disabled, packet groups were nonaccessible
2. structure of the packet groups were not persistent across pages in certain situations (ex: after form submission)

If you look at the sandbox, you'll see both problems have been solved (to test persistence, just open a few random groups, then click refresh). To test accessibility if js is disabled, disable it in your browser, and hit refresh.

Now those two are no longer problems. But here's a very strange situation. If you open a few groups (doesn't matter what), then click refresh, and look at the first group, you'll see the packets are gone and have been replaced by a simple + character... It's driving me insane, I can't find any problem with my code, I've debugged it over and over and over and still can't find the problem.

BTW, the new function I ended up using was:

[code] function toggle_visibility(id) {
        var e = document.getElementById(id);
if(e){
        if(e.style.display == 'block'){
e.style.display = 'none';
forgetid(id);
        } else {
e.style.display = 'block';
rememberid(id);
}
}
    }[/code]

That pretty much does the toggle, AND enables memory persistence. If you'd like to see the memory persistence code, just look at the javascript source when you look at the sandbox. If you can find the glitch that's been driving me crazy, PLEASE LET ME KNOW! Before I either go bonkers, commit suicide, or end up being committed in the local mental hospital...

Edit: You can see the javascript source at:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/js/standard.js

If I may make a suggestion.
Move the CSS to a 2nd file. it'll save a ton of bandwidth if you are using a browser that supports caching.
Do the default as a file, and then the custom.. have them :P cascade
~Hdx

[quote author=Hdx link=topic=16970.msg171928#msg171928 date=1187991074]
If I may make a suggestion.
Move the CSS to a 2nd file. it'll save a ton of bandwidth if you are using a browser that supports caching.
Do the default as a file, and then the custom.. have them :P cascade
~Hdx
[/quote]

Good idea, that. Added to to-do list. Thanks. :)

[quote author=Don Cullen link=topic=16970.msg171852#msg171852 date=1187838821]
Joe, you misunderstood Andy. Andy was talking about the left side navigation menu that was listing all of the packets -- it was originally an extremely long list. That was on the old BNETDocs.
[/quote]

No, I understood him perfectly. Maybe I worded a response in a way that was misunderstood?

[quote author=Joe[x86] link=topic=16970.msg171841#msg171841 date=1187830548]
[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171838#msg171838 date=1187823285]
If you're going to make a new documentation site, make the big ol mile long packet list a frame that only loads ONCE and has a vertical scroll. That's the most annoying part of bnetdocs ever.
[/quote]

I expressed this to Arta a while ago. Apparently his reason is that he doesn't want it to cache in case he adds new packets. Perhaps if it expired after 1 hour or so? Does HTTP have that feature?
[/quote]

[quote author=Joe[x86] link=topic=16970.msg171939#msg171939 date=1188007166]
[quote author=Don Cullen link=topic=16970.msg171852#msg171852 date=1187838821]
Joe, you misunderstood Andy. Andy was talking about the left side navigation menu that was listing all of the packets -- it was originally an extremely long list. That was on the old BNETDocs.
[/quote]

No, I understood him perfectly. Maybe I worded a response in a way that was misunderstood?
[/quote]

Ahh... You mean, Arta was worried that the frame itself that would have been intended to contain only the packet groups would be cached, thereby losing out on new packets. I misunderstood. I apologize for the confusion.

No, frames will not be implemented, I just don't feel comfortable making use of them. While I can see the logic behind using them, I'd rather not.

This page pretty much summarizes why I don't feel comfortable with frames:

http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/frames/goodorbad.html

But I most definitely will be making use of Andy's idea of merging two packets of same name but different directions into one line, two links (example: SID_NAME (C->S) (S->C)). That should cut down the size of the list by half. I'll explore other possibilities if suggested.

Rabbit, good news. Your concern about the site requiring javascript has been addressed, and that should no longer be a problem, as the packet groups are expanded by default. Also, the issue of the packet groups' structure not being 100% persistent across pages has been fixed. The javascript code handling it has been overhauled. Now the packet structure will be persistent for as long as the browser remains open, regardless of if the user navigates across pages via links or form posts/redirections, even if the user navigates to another website entirely, and eventually returns back to the site, the structure will remain persistent. The only time the structure will be reset is when the browser instance itself is closed. Thanks for pointing out those two issues! :)

In that case, use the CSS overflow property, so you can just scroll the list without scrolling the rest of the page.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171942#msg171942 date=1188014485]
In that case, use the CSS overflow property, so you can just scroll the list without scrolling the rest of the page.
[/quote]

You can do that yourself in the CSS Theme editor. Just do something like:

[code]#packets {
height:300px;
overflow: auto;
}[/code]

Or for a specific packet group only, you can do something like:

[code]#Battle_net_Messages { /* Sets overflow for the Battle.net Messages packet group */
height:300px;
overflow: auto;
}

#BNLS_Messages { /* Sets overflow for the BNLS Messages packet group */
height:300px;
overflow: auto;
}[/code]

You even could go as so far as to completely eliminate specific packet groups you have absolutely no interest in, for instance, the D2GS messages:

[code]#D2GS_Messages {      /* Removes the D2GS Messages packet group from nav menu */
display: none;
}[/code]

Edit: I just tested for myself, and apparently the CSS render defaulting to the original contents is still existent... I'll get started on fixing this problem now, and when it's fixed, I'll let you know in this thread. :-\

I have no interest in signing up. I'm just suggesting what should be default appearances. It's not nice to your users to make them scroll the whole window.

I understand your view and your concerns, Andy. If you explore most of the popular sites out there, you'd see they make the user scroll. It's an accepted necessity for scrolling. I don't like scrolling much myself, but I can see where there'd be need for it if there was alot of content.

And besides, that's why I implemented div toggling -- to reduce scrolling, and that's also why I'll be using your idea of:

[quote]- Instead of listing every single packet twice for S>C and C>S, just make two links per line like so:
[0x00] SID_NULL (S>C) (C>S) [Suggested by Andy AKA Reality Ripple] [/quote]

Those two in combination will reduce scrolling by a considerable percentage. While I doubt you and I will ever agree on whether scrolling should be a necessity or to be avoided at all costs, I respect your opinion, and thank you for your input.

You'll also notice following W3C standards, designing sites for any screen size, and allowing text-based browsers to view sites well are also not very common. That's not an excuse. If you can find a better way to do something, do it.

I agree on following W3C standards, and would if I was an elite coder. As for text-based browsers, those are obsolete. If anyone is still using a text-based browser, they badly need to jump up into the present and out of ancient history.

Take PHP for example. They don't continue to support PHP v1.0. There's a reason.

Take ANYTHING out there. They don't support early versions, and strongly encourage users to upgrade to current, or at the very least, close to current versions. Those that attempt to continue to be backwards compatible regardless of the sanity of it, tend to buckle in the end and abandon earlier versions. It's called being sane and not being blindly stubborn. Even in California, it's illegal to drive vehicles that emit alot of smog (read: ancient vehicles that aren't up to par to smog standards) and repeated violations will get the vehicle impounded. Whether it was the user's preference towards that particular vehicle means nothing to the government. It's not their problem. The law specifically states: either fix the smog problem, or if the vehicle is too ancient (aka incompatible with being smogged), trade it in for another vehicle.

The concept is similar with browsers: if the browsers aren't compatible with the majority of sites out there, and they aren't upgradable, it's time to trade 'em in for a more compatible browser. That's reality.

Refusal to adhere to modern standards isn't a valid excuse for coders to have to bend over and try to please them. Text-based browsers? While I respect their preferences to use text-based browsers, but, damn. Talk about the dark ages. While I admire your stance, I have to say I disagree with it.

...You've obviously never used Linux. If you fuck anything up with your display system, you have to use the text-based version, which gives you access to Lynx for web browsing. People do still use it, whether you want to believe it or not. I've had everything on my hard drive at the mercy of a text based browser while I was trying to find a solution for a major issue I was having. Having to navigate through sites that had no consideration for a text browser was hell. You yourself support text based browsing with your text version of all the packets.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171948#msg171948 date=1188020788]
...You've obviously never used Linux. If you fuck anything up with your display system, you have to use the text-based version, which gives you access to Lynx for web browsing. People do still use it, whether you want to believe it or not. I've had everything on my hard drive at the mercy of a text based browser while I was trying to find a solution for a major issue I was having. Having to navigate through sites that had no consideration for a text browser was hell. You yourself support text based browsing with your text version of all the packets.
[/quote]

Actually, I use Linux. Ubuntu, specifically. On my laptop, I have Windows XP and regularly SSH into my virtual private server which is running a linux distro called Centos 4.4. And I've screwed up my display before to that point. But I didn't resort to using Lynx. Instead, I elected to simply insert a LiveCD (Knoppix) into my cd drive. The LiveCD has firefox on it. I simply boot up using the LiveCD, search for a solution, once I find several, I then reboot back into Ubuntu and apply the solutions I find to it. If none of the solutions work, I switch back to Knoppix LiveCD, resume searching. Rinse and repeat. Much quicker and easier than having to navigate the web using Lynx.

But now I have a laptop running Windows XP, I usually just switch to the laptop, and use that for internet until I find a solution to fix my Ubuntu machine. Those days, every machine, even outdated ones, have a CD drive. Unless you're running an extremely ancient machine that actually only has a 5 1/4 " or 3.5 " floppy disk drive. Then I'd understand and completely sympathize. But even then, I'd still strongly recommend either installing a CD drive, or upgrading to a more up-to-date machine. To not do so otherwise would be irrational. LiveCDs are extremely useful, especially when the OS goes to hell and absolutely refuses or is a pain in the butt to cooperate with any attempts to repair/resurrect it.

Suggestion: make a LiveCD with all of the software you'd need to do repairs/troubleshooting with, and save it. It always comes in handy. I know it has for me. Many times.

Edit: Here's link to Knoppix LiveCD:

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

I have knoppix. At the time, my kernel was also corrupt, and I was unable to use CDs at all. Also, have you considered users of text-browsers running on cellular phones?

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171951#msg171951 date=1188022620]
I have knoppix. At the time, my kernel was also corrupt, and I was unable to use CDs at all. Also, have you considered users of text-browsers running on cellular phones?
[/quote]

In that case, just go into BIOS and tell it to boot to CD first, not the hard drive. I've corrupted the kernel before (I'm a Linux newbie), and I'll be damned if I know what I did. In the end, I just went into BIOS, told it to boot to CD first, then I booted to my LiveCD, and did a clean reinstall since I had screwed up the OS to hell and had no idea what was wrong.

As for users surfing the net via cell phones; there's WAP. And that's for sites that'd like to cater to that niche. I asked the members using the vL forums what they thought about a mobile version of BNETDocs, many thought it was pointless and extravagant. To that end, I discarded the idea of coding a WAP version of BNETDocs Redux.

In fact, you yourself said and I quote:

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16606.msg167855#msg167855 date=1176341000]Why the hell would you need a mobile BNetDocs? I don't think programming on a cell phone is likely, or efficient.[/quote]

Here's the thread I'm referring to:

https://davnit.net/bnet/vL/index.php?topic=16606.0

It was much easier just to use a text browser than to reinstall an operating system....

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171953#msg171953 date=1188023152]
It was much easier just to use a text browser than to reinstall an operating system....
[/quote]

I wasn't saying reinstall it-- basically, LiveCD has it's own OS, so when you boot from the CD, you're literally booting from the CD, and running the OS *from* the CD. Nothing is installed or reinstalled or removed or modified. The hard drive isn't even touched. Although you could mount it via the LiveCD if you wanted. Which is what I pretty much did -- I booted from the LiveCD, then mounted the hard drive, then fixed the problem, then rebooted, this time into Ubuntu. Problem solved. Very nifty.

Hell, even if you manually disconnected the hard drive from a system, and the system had absolutely no hard drives, it'd boot into the LiveCD OS just fine. Ubuntu also has a LiveCD you can make use of if you prefer that OS:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD

I know it does... but it's still a bit excessive when you can do it easier using lynx and a text-based text editor.

I disagree. Re-read what you said:

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171948#msg171948 date=1188020788]
...You've obviously never used Linux. If you fuck anything up with your display system, you have to use the text-based version, which gives you access to Lynx for web browsing. ... I've had everything on my hard drive at the mercy of a text based browser while I was trying to find a solution for a major issue I was having. Having to navigate through sites that had no consideration for a text browser was hell. You yourself support text based browsing with your text version of all the packets.[/quote]

For me, it's quite easy.

1. Open CD drive, insert LiveCD.
2. Enter BIOS to set to boot from CD if your pc boots to HD first.
3. Reboot
4. Mount hard drive manually
5. Find solution via internet using Firefox, while additionally using gaim to keep chattin with friends, maybe even do additional stuff such as browse the news, check emails, etc, etc.
6. Once a solution is found, apply it.
7. Reboot.

Edit: Actually, it's only six steps for me (I don't need to do #2, since both of my pc's are set to boot from cd first, then from hard drive. Saves the trouble of having to go into BIOS later if the HD or the kernel gets royally screwed in the future).

It takes considerably less effort, and plus, I even enjoy myself since I'm able to easily chat with friends, browse the news, check my emails, surf the net WHILE searching for a solution. So to that end, when I'm done, I'm only slightly annoyed.

Slightly annoyed, compared with your:

[quote]was hell[/quote]

I rest my case. :)

No, navigating sites that don't support text-based systems was hell. Finding the solution on a text-friendly site (which most linux sites are) was easy as pie.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171957#msg171957 date=1188024470]No, navigating sites that don't support text-based systems was hell. Finding the solution on a text-friendly site (which most linux sites are) was easy as pie.[/quote]

Let's see, you cite experiencing hell on sites that aren't text-friendly, while citing ease of use on text-friendly with your method. That's 50/50.

I cite ease of use of both types of sites. To top it off, while I'm searching for a solution, I can multitask via gaim, news, emails, etc. Even play games (Knoppix LiveCD distro has games on it) while I'm sittin there waiting for the RPMs to install, or for yum to finish bailing me out, or whatever time-intensive task there is at hand where there's nothing for me to do but wait.

So. On one hand for your case, there's a 50/50 ease ratio. On the other hand, there's a 100% ease ratio for my case. I think I'll opt to stick with my method. Less aggravation. You're always welcome to stick with your method. That's the spirit of Linux after all: to each user their own style of modus operandi. :)

It wouldn't be so hard if things still supported text-based systems. -.-

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171959#msg171959 date=1188025492]
It wouldn't be so hard if things still supported text-based systems. -.-
[/quote]

Granted. But consider the following:

Science is organized common sense where many a beautiful theory was killed by an ugly fact. (Thomas H Huxley)

Like a man who has worn eyeglasses so long that he forgets he has them on, we forget that the world looks to us the way it does because we have become used to seeing it that way through a particular set of lenses. (Kenich Ohmae)

Time and tide wait for no man. A pompous and self-satisfied proverb, and was true for a billion years; but in our day of electric wires and water-ballast we turn it around: Man waits not for time nor tide. (Mark Twain)

And my personal favorite:

Restlessness and discontent are the first necessities of progress. (Thomas Edison)

Basically, what I'm saying is: I totally sympathize with you. But life goes on. :)

Actually, I'm working on a mouse-friendly text-based Explorer replacement. I hate GUIs.

I use Lynx
You should too

@Reality's Explorer replacement:
Would it be practical? Since Windows is almost completely GUI dependant, that's going to be a bit hard :P, but please go on. I'm a bit interested in how you would do the taskbar :P...  I don't know about you, but cd and dir are good enough to be my text based explorer.

brew: You don't use lynx. Don't kid yourself. Stop trying to act cool.

None of you retards do, I wager. Stop trying to act cool. Do you know why people don't make websites that are friendly to CLI browsers like lynx and links? Because nobody uses them on a day-to-day basis. You don't make webpages for a minority. You make them for a majority. Don't think of the small fraction of a fraction of 1% of your visitors.

Stop crying me a fucking river like you're so fucking inconvenienced by a webpage not being "lynx-friendly" because you sound like a retard.

If you're truly using lynx and are too stupid to get X working, see the second quote in my signature. Take torque's advice.

[hr]

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171961#msg171961 date=1188026564]
Actually, I'm working on a mouse-friendly text-based Explorer replacement. I hate GUIs.
[/quote]

Why do you hate GUIs? What's so terrible about them? Are you just trying to go against the flow of what society wants? Do you have some logical reasoning for using a terminal/command-line versus a GUI (i.e. it saves memory, it's faster to respond, etc. something along those lines)? Or is it just a personal preference? If so, what do you use for AIM/MSN/etc?

The CSS Theme Editor has been fixed. You guys shouldn't have any more further problems using the editor. If there is any problems, please do feel free to let me know.

It still doesn't render my changes.

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg171968#msg171968 date=1188063663]
It still doesn't render my changes.
[/quote]

What?? I thought I fixed it... It rendered for me. >.<

Alright, can you post your CSS code, and the changes you made to it so I can attempt to duplicate and pinpoint the problem?

Edit: I went into phpMyAdmin, copied your CSS code, pasted it into my CSS theme editor, and clicked render. It rendered just fine (I originally was using the Experimental theme, so when it rendered your CSS theme, the changes were obvious). I then added the following code:

[code]#links,#packets {
    display: none;
}[/code]

And clicked Render. It rendered that code as well. So far, I'm not seeing any problems.

Edit2: I've made all kinds of changes to the CSS code, even major changes, modified font sizes, font types, colors, hidden/shown varying div's, hid the logo and the alternate logo, made the alternate text logo only show, and so forth. I even went as so far as to completely wipe the CSS code so the textarea was empty, and clicked render. All changes rendered fine...

As I've said, could you post the CSS code you were trying to use, so I can test it for myself?

Edit3: Camel, I've fixed the mailer misformatting problem. It should come in crystal clear now. Thanks for pointing out the problem! :)

[quote author=Newby link=topic=16970.msg171965#msg171965 date=1188059915]
None of you retards do, I wager. Stop trying to act cool. Do you know why people don't make websites that are friendly to CLI browsers like lynx and links? Because nobody uses them on a day-to-day basis. You don't make webpages for a minority. You make them for a majority. Don't think of the small fraction of a fraction of 1% of your visitors.

Stop crying me a fucking river like you're so fucking inconvenienced by a webpage not being "lynx-friendly" because you sound like a retard.
[/quote]
You obviously have no clue how to design web sites to standard. There are three major points when designing a web site that should always be followed (and sadly, never are): Make it work on any screen size, make it work on any browser, and make it work with any or no extra features enabled. Requiring Javascript is the same as requiring images. All images must have alternate text to be w3c validated for a REASON.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=16970.msg171965#msg171965 date=1188059915]
Why do you hate GUIs? What's so terrible about them? Are you just trying to go against the flow of what society wants? Do you have some logical reasoning for using a terminal/command-line versus a GUI (i.e. it saves memory, it's faster to respond, etc. something along those lines)? Or is it just a personal preference? If so, what do you use for AIM/MSN/etc?
[/quote]
Since before my memory begins, I was using computers. My grandmother started me on a Commodore 128 PC. At the age of 7, I learned to program in BASIC 7.2 (which was the language the C128 used as it's operating system). At 9, I learned MONITOR (which was the C128's assembley). It was all text based, 16 colors, 40 columns, 1 MHz processor. It worked fine. Since then, GUIs and Object Oriented systems have annoyed the fuck out of me, due to their excessive nature and coding annoyances. Forums and chat rooms and such are mostly text-based if you think about it, since they have minimal borders of graphics, and buttons, and that's it besides text.

As for what I use for chat, I use Trillian, with a skin I created myself (from scratch), called In The Dark [Screen Shot].

[quote author=brew link=topic=16970.msg171963#msg171963 date=1188056932]
Would it be practical? Since Windows is almost completely GUI dependant, that's going to be a bit hard :P, but please go on. I'm a bit interested in how you would do the taskbar :P...  I don't know about you, but cd and dir are good enough to be my text based explorer.
[/quote]

Brew, the basic idea would be somewhat like DOS for navigation, except it would list the current directory at the top of the window, and you'd be able to click on a folder of the path and navigate there. Or when you do Dir, you could click on a folder or file name instead of typing in "cd folder" or "file.ext". It's not a replacement for windows at all. Explorer is just the desktop, taskbar, and folder viewer. And as for how the taskbar would look, I'm thinking something along the lines of using the old Windows 3.1 style, where the "desktop icons" are running programs, except they're all 16x16 icons with side text down at the bottom. I don't yet have an effective and useful idea for the start menu.

I don't want a full text-based system, as Icons are a helpful way to easily determine what type of file a file is, so any file or folder names will have an icon next to them (unless you disable that feature).

[quote]Since before my memory begins, I was using computers. My grandmother started me on a Commodore 128 PC. At the age of 7, I learned to program in BASIC 7.2 (which was the language the C128 used as it's operating system). At 9, I learned MONITOR (which was the C128's assembley). It was all text based, 16 colors, 40 columns, 1 MHz processor. It worked fine. Since then, GUIs and Object Oriented systems have annoyed the fuck out of me, due to their excessive nature and coding annoyances. Forums and chat rooms and such are mostly text-based if you think about it, since they have minimal borders of graphics, and buttons, and that's it besides text.[/quote]

That's precisely why I gave you this quote:

[quote]Like a man who has worn eyeglasses so long that he forgets he has them on, we forget that the world looks to us the way it does because we have become used to seeing it that way through a particular set of lenses. (Kenich Ohmae)[/quote]

[quote]As for what I use for chat, I use Trillian, with a skin I created myself (from scratch), called In The Dark [Screen Shot].[/quote]

Nice skin, very minimalist. Mind if I use the skin? I have Trillian myself. You also might want to black out the screen names in the screenshot. I doubt Hdx wants everybody on the internet to have his AIM screen name.

Edit: Never mind, I found your skin at your website (http://realityripple.com/software/other/). Thanks. :)

Oh, I totally didn't realize those showed there. Thanks for pointing that out.

Also,  I'm used to a GUI system now, but that doesn't mean I like it. It still seems excessive, capitalistic, and pointless. I don't associate with that quote as well as I do some others (see my sig ;) )

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171972#msg171972 date=1188071378]Oh, I totally didn't realize those showed there. Thanks for pointing that out.[/quote]

No problem. You still haven't blacked 'em out. :P

Edit: never mind. It was my browser cache. I clicked refresh, you DID blur 'em out. :P

@Don and anyone else interested in the D2GS data, I have started a thread here to discuss changes that I will be looking @ making.

still no W3GS :'(

[quote author=iCe link=topic=16970.msg171987#msg171987 date=1188086737]
still no W3GS :'(
[/quote]

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11

It's on the to-do list.

Edit: W3GS has been added as a packet group. You should be seeing it on BNETDocs Redux. Editors will be now able to add packets specifically for that group.

Edit2: A thread has been opened specifically for contributions for that packet group:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=12#12

I removed all the fonts except Arial and Courier New, and clicked render.  Everything was still in Times New Roman.  Hence, broken.

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg171999#msg171999 date=1188097146]I removed all the fonts except Arial and Courier New, and clicked render.  Everything was still in Times New Roman.  Hence, broken.[/quote]

Times New Roman? I just inspected the code line by line for style.css, and I examined your CSS, I see absolutely no mention of Times New Roman. I even went to http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net, and right clicked, clicked on view source, then I personally examined the source. I see absolutely no mention of the specified font. Are you absolutely sure it's the website, and not your browser? Have you looked at the source code of the page after rendering by right clicking anywhere in the page and clicking view source and examining the source for the font you keep saying you're seeing?

If you can confirm that you found it in the source code, take a screen shot and post it here so I can pinpoint it and fix the problem. Otherwise, the problem is your browser.

In fact, I just personally crawled through the source code removing ALL instances of ANY font.

Aside from the font problem, are you having any problems rendering other stuff, for instance, font size, colors, hiding/showing sections, etc?

Edit: I just checked your CSS code, and I can see you've adjusted the font family to only Arial. So guess what? The CSS rendering is working perfectly. The problem isn't your browser, the problem isn't the CSS renderer. The problem is your CSS code. I'm not sure where exactly, but I'll do research.

Edit2: I copied your CSS code over to my account, then did some experimenting, and found a solution. It was actually quite easy. All I had to do was add this:

[code] font-family: arial;[/code]

To the body { section of the CSS and I clicked render. The font changed to Arial. So the rendering *DOES* work. You just weren't coding right. :P

Edit3: I liked Arial so much better, it was more pleasant to read-- I actually felt my eyes exulting in ecstasy. So I went ahead and made it the universial default. If you log out and click refresh, you'll see the majority of the font is now in arial. :)

Edit4: I took the liberty and edited the CSS code on your account to add the line of code to your body section. You should be seeing the changes the next time you go to the site (or if you logged out previously, the next time you log in). Enjoy.

Just checked it myself, and ya, Firefox's default font is Times New Roman, and that's what was making the page Times New Roman.

My settings are to render site defined fonts, and only to use specified fonts if the site doesn't say what to use.

Also, it happens in IE.

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg172007#msg172007 date=1188102569]
My settings are to render site defined fonts, and only to use specified fonts if the site doesn't say what to use.

Also, it happens in IE.
[/quote]

Should be fine now. Like I said, the problem was in your CSS code. Your body section was missing the font-family declaration, I added it for you. Should be fine now. The CSS Renderer isn't broken. ;p

Edit: If at first you don't see arial, click refresh.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171972#msg171972 date=1188071378]
It still seems excessive, capitalistic, and pointless.
[/quote]

Capitalistic? :|

[quote author=Newby link=topic=16970.msg172038#msg172038 date=1188143322]
[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg171972#msg171972 date=1188071378]
It still seems excessive, capitalistic, and pointless.
[/quote]

Capitalistic? :|
[/quote]

:P Everyone has their own preferences, no matter how strange others might find it. In the programming world, we don't take a true measure based on the man's preferences, but based on his output. And he's already proven himself in that area many times over. :)

To me, capitalism has lost the idealism it once had, and is now corrupt excess. Streamlined designs are a perfect example of excessive effort on something that doesn't matter in the least compared to functionality.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg172067#msg172067 date=1188164104]
To me, capitalism has lost the idealism it once had, and is now corrupt excess. Streamlined designs are a perfect example of excessive effort on something that doesn't matter in the least compared to functionality.
[/quote]

[quote]cap·i·tal·ism      (kāp'ĭ-tl-ĭz'əm)  Pronunciation Key
n.  An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. [/quote]

... Dude, capitalism is entirely intended for profit. While I can see why capitalism can be viewed as ugly, but it's also an unfortunate aspect of our reality. If one wants to succeed in life, one has to embrace it.

But that's off the subject. The point of this thread is pretty much BNETDocs Redux. So... Back to the topic. If you two want to argue about capitalism and GUI's, take it to the general forums. :P

Your PHP code generator creates DEFINES with double-quoted strings. Use single-quotes to hint to the parser that it's a fixed string, so it won't be forced to look for variables.

[quote author=Camel link=topic=16970.msg172111#msg172111 date=1188228127]
Your PHP code generator creates DEFINES with double-quoted strings. Use single-quotes to hint to the parser that it's a fixed string, so it won't be forced to look for variables.
[/quote]

Thanks for pointing it out. Fixed. :)

I was looking over your CSS templates, and I noticed something: you're bad at CSS.  I don't mean this as an insult or anything, but....you are :\

You do weird things, like mix px and em sizing, explicitly declare defaults, and suck at whitespace in general.  For example, your current links setup can be rewritten much more cleanly:
[code]/* current */
a:link{
color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;
text-transform: none;
}

a:visited{
color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;
text-transform: none;
}

a:active{
color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;
text-transform: none;
}

a:hover{
color: #00CCCC;
text-decoration: underline;
text-transform: none;
}[/code]

[code]/* what it should be */
a { color: blue; }
a:hover { color: #00CCCC; }[/code]

(You can look at my CSS template for a complete reworking in a more efficient way...soon.  I'm not done.)
Also, you lock the size of the packet links to 1, which is mean because it's too damn small.

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg172114#msg172114 date=1188237505]
I was looking over your CSS templates, and I noticed something: you're bad at CSS.  I don't mean this as an insult or anything, but....you are :\[/quote]

Yep, I freely admit it. I suck at CSS. :-\

[quote](You can look at my CSS template for a complete reworking in a more efficient way...soon.  I'm not done.)[/quote]

If it looks good, as I'm sure it will, I'll make it the universal default CSS.

[quote]Also, you lock the size of the packet links to 1, which is mean because it's too damn small.[/quote]

I did that to keep the packets from expanding the div's they're in too much. I was trying to minimize the amount of space the packets took up in the left side navigation.

Well, it's mostly finished, but I have some errands to run so it's not perfect.

[edits]
Also, it'd be great if you could throw some \n's into your output of the menus.  Having 500 characters on a single line isn't fun.

[quote author=Don Cullen link=topic=16970.msg172115#msg172115 date=1188237645]
[quote]Also, you lock the size of the packet links to 1, which is mean because it's too damn small.[/quote]

I did that to keep the packets from expanding the div's they're in too much. I was trying to minimize the amount of space the packets took up in the left side navigation.
[/quote]Make a class :\

[quote author=rabbit]Well, it's mostly finished, but I have some errands to run so it's not perfect.[/quote]

No worries. BNETDocs Redux can wait, it's not like it'll grind to a halt. ;)

[quote author=Don Cullen link=topic=16970.msg172115#msg172115 date=1188237645]
I did that to keep the packets from expanding the div's they're in too much. I was trying to minimize the amount of space the packets took up in the left side navigation.
[/quote]

As discussed earlier, a tactful frame would solve that problem. You mentioned you use PHPMyAdmin - the frame used there is a good example of how to implement frames without pissing off the user.

I never did like phpMyAdmin. I use it anyway because there's no viable decent alternative that I know of.

I'd rather avoid using frames as long as viable alternatives to frames exist.

To this end, I've added a quick jump form to the nav menu, so people can just type in the packet name and jump to it instead of hunting it down in the list. Later on, I will be restructuring the packet list and how it lists packets, this should further compact the groups and make it easier to read.

Now, it seems to me that, while I have a widescreen display, the layout of the website is not very 800x600 friendly.

Screen shot?

[img]http://www.liquid-server.org/images/eww1.png[/img]

[img]http://www.liquid-server.org/images/eww2.png[/img]

[img]http://www.liquid-server.org/images/eww3.png[/img]

Add this CSS code to your theme:

[code]#bodyPackets {
width: 225px;
overflow: auto;
}[/code]

That should solve your problem...

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=16970.msg172116#msg172116 date=1188238017]Well, it's mostly finished, but I have some errands to run so it's not perfect.[/quote]

Done yet?

[quote]Also, it'd be great if you could throw some \n's into your output of the menus.  Having 500 characters on a single line isn't fun.[/quote]

I don't understand. Mind clarifying?

[quote]Make a class :\[/quote]

Already ahead of you. I modified the code, so you should be able to edit alot of it via CSS now.

[code]#content {
/* The entire site. */
}

#logo {
/* the graphical logo */
}

#textonlylogo {
/* obvious... */
}

.navmenu {
/* class that affects all of the navigation menus on both sides of the site */
}

/* div's include the title bar AND the body, the body doesn't include title bars */

#divMain_Menu {
}

#bodyMain_Menu {
}

#divConsole {
}

#bodyConsole {
}

#divDocuments {
}

#bodyDocuments {
}

#divGenerate_Code {
}

#bodyGenerate_Code {
}

#divPackets {
}

#bodyPackets {
}

#divOther_Resources {
}

#bodyOther_Resources {
}

/* The following is for the text RAW, RESEARCH, and DEFUNCT when listing their status in the packet menu. */

.raw {
}

.research {
}

.defunct {
}

#viewcode {
/* for the "View Code: [  PAS CPP VB PHP  ]" line */
}[/code]

If there's anything else you'd like for me to make into a class/id, let me know and I'll add it.

Toss some \n's into your menu!

[code]<div id="Battle_net_Messages">Battle.net Messages [ <a id="x11" href="#" onclick="toggle_visibility('a1'); toggle_name(this); return(false);">+</a> ]<br><div class="togglable" id="a1"><a href="/?op=packet&pid=370"><font size=1>S > C [0x00] SID_NULL</font></a><br><a href="/?op=packet&pid=174"><font size=1>C >.......[/code]A snippet from the menu.

Now, some pseudocode of what your menu code may look like[code]loop open
    $packetlist .= "<a href=\"/?op=packet&pid=" . $packet_lid . "\"><font size=1>" . $direction . " [0x" . $pid . "] " . $packetname . "</font></a><br>";
loop close
print $packetlist;[/code]

And here, some pseudocode of what your menu code SHOULD look like (if it's like the above)
[code]loop open
    $packetlist .= "<a href=\"/?op=packet&pid=" . $packet_lid . "\"><font size=1>" . $direction . " [0x" . $pid . "] " . $packetname . "</font></a><br>\n"; // <-- note the \n
loop close
print $packetlist;[/code]

Done.

Document editor is finished, so documents can be added to BNETDocs Redux now. I've started work on the comment scripts, so people should be able to comment on packets/documents as soon as I finish the script.

Edit: Apologies for double post, forgot to check to see who the last poster was (me).

About documents... The "Related" bit doesn't seem to work right. See "Battle.net's File Transfer Protocol Version 1" or "Version 2" for what I mean.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg172314#msg172314 date=1188929299]
About documents... The "Related" bit doesn't seem to work right. See "Battle.net's File Transfer Protocol Version 1" or "Version 2" for what I mean.
[/quote]

Ahh yes, I see what you mean. The shortcut code seems to be broken. I'm looking into it now.

Edit: fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.

There we go. Also, I've started using tab formatting (DL/DT/DD HTML tags) in some of the messages for easier reading. http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=packet&pid=381 is a good example of what I mean. Is this alright?

Great... Now I can't use any HTML tags or the site errors. What'd you do?

Most unexpected. Apparently I forgot to add a html filter to the packet scripts, as well as the document scripts. I'll do that.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg172337#msg172337 date=1188946412]
Great... Now I can't use any HTML tags or the site errors. What'd you do?
[/quote]

My apologies, works fine now. Thanks for pointing it out. When you said you were using HTML tags, I was very surprised, I thought I had put in code to filter out HTML. So I went in and put in code to filter out html. But I also set it up to allow certain HTML tags, dl, dt, dd should work fine. If there's any other tags you'd like to me to add to the allowance list (currently allowed are: b, i, blockquote, ul, ol, li, br, a, dl, dt, dd), let me know.

My apologies for the errors, you happened to be using BNETDocs Redux at the same exact moment I was adding in the filter. :P I'm done now, so there should be no further errors on that part.

s (strikethrough), u (underline), and possibly style tags would be useful. I'll continue adding stuff later on. See ya!

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg172339#msg172339 date=1188947606]
s (strikethrough), u (underline), and possibly style tags would be useful. I'll continue adding stuff later on. See ya!
[/quote]

s, u, and p have been added. I didn't add <style> tags since that'd interfere with existing user's css theme preferences. I however added span to the list of allowed tags, so if you want, you could stylize individual text, or whatever via span. For instance, if you do this:

<span class="example">Example text</span>, you'd be able to use your CSS Theme editor to assign styles to that particular class/id.

You also could do:

<span style="something">Example text</span>, but I'd advise against it since that pretty much takes the ability of users to customize the site to their preferences out of their hands. If you absolutely *must* add the style tag to span or other allowed tags, at least minimize the amount of interference to the user's custom css it will cause... :)

edit: Rabbit, css themes are now done via external files. Thanks for the suggestion.

Well, the main thing I'm wondering is do you have any interest in being W3C valid? Strict HTML 4.01 doesn't have B, I, S, U, blockquote, etc...

Edit: I believe we need to standardize a packet display format. My suggestion (and what I've been using) is:
[code]Format:
(TYPE) [#] Name (Def)

TYPE: Variable Type
#: Count of variables if in a group
Name: Variable name
Def: Default (or seen) value(s) of the variable

Remarks:
Information.

Information on Name:
<dl><dd>0x##: Description
0x##: Description</dd></dl>
More Information.[/code]

For (what I think is) the best example of this format, view the MCP_STARTUP documentation.

I'd also like to suggest we use a standardized terminology. For example, all clients referred to by their Product ID (DRTL/DSHR/D2DV/D2XP/STAR/SEXP/JSTR/SSHR/W2BN/WAR3/W3XP), "Realm" for d2 realms, "IPBan" for a temporary IP-based ban, "Battle.net" or "BNCS" for Battle.net itself ("Gateway" for the individual gateways), etc.

You should change the transform so '\n' becomes '<br/>' automatically.

[edit] or use <pre>...</pre>

[quote author=Camel link=topic=16970.msg172349#msg172349 date=1188999917]
You should change the transform so '\n' becomes '<br/>' automatically.

[edit] or use <pre>...</pre>
[/quote]Bad.  \n to <br /> would make the output pretty, but the code behind it would all be on one line (which I've already pointed out is hell to debug).

There's nothing preventing a '\n' => '<br/>\n' transform.

new lines already become <br>'s. It's sort of annoying when you have other tags that create new lines anyway...

:%s/<br>\n/\n/
:%s/<br>/\n/g

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=packet&pid=217

WTF is this?

Nice find, typo?

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg172435#msg172435 date=1189202978]
http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=packet&pid=217

WTF is this?
[/quote]

Not too sure. LordVader found it amongst the D2GS packets, and brought it to my attention. Based on the remarks, I recognized the description as typical of Warcraft 3, so I moved it to the Battle.net Message packet group and changed the game icons to WC3 and WC3TFT. Since I haven't worked with WC3 packets in the past, I wasn't sure if it was inaccurate or completely invalid, but in the end I elected not to delete it and left it alone in hopes someone could either correct/update it, or determine it as an invalid packet altogether.

If you and the others figure out which packet it's referring to, feel free to correct/update it. If it's invalid entirely or is a duplicate of another packet, go ahead and delete it.

0x27 is WriteUserData. That packet's completely wrong.

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg172453#msg172453 date=1189224575]
0x27 is WriteUserData. That packet's completely wrong.
[/quote]

Perhaps the message id/name are wrong, but the actual packet contents are correct? If it's the packet id and name that's wrong, then what's the correct name/id?

Edit: Since RealityRipple deleted the packet, here's the packet for reference if anyone can identify the packet based on content:

[quote]Message ID: 0x27
Message Name: SID_0x27
Message Status: RAW, NEW PACKET
Direction: Client -> Server (Sent)
Used By: Warcraft III: TFT, Warcraft III
Format: (DWORD) Item ID

(DWORD) Item ID
Remarks: Contains the members of a clan.





Status

0x00: Offline

0x01: Online



Rank

0x00: Initiate that has been in the clan for less than one week

0x01: Initiate that has been in the clan for over one week

0x02: Member

0x03: Officer

0x04: Leader


Location

Where the user is, i.e., game name, channel name, or this may be null if the user is not online.

Please note: This message's official name is not known, and has been invented.

Related Links: Clan Message Codes, [C>0x7D] SID_CLANMEMBERLIST[/quote]

it says what it is. SID_CLANMEMBERLIST!

[quote author=Andy link=topic=16970.msg172455#msg172455 date=1189225541]
it says what it is. SID_CLANMEMBERLIST.
[/quote]

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=packet&pid=216

Yea. In other words, it's a duplicate. Hopefully the only duplicate there is.

A cool useless feature would be editor activity: keep a log/running count of the number of edits/size of edit of each author. Then, make a top-10 contributors page.

Also, make me an editor please ;)

[quote author=Camel link=topic=16970.msg172548#msg172548 date=1189436168]
A cool useless feature would be editor activity: keep a log/running count of the number of edits/size of edit of each author. Then, make a top-10 contributors page.

Also, make me an editor please ;)
[/quote]

I had considered adding stats in for the log viewer. I wasn't sure if there was demand for it. But now you've asked, I'll add it to the to-do list.

As for making you editor, will do.

I will do those once the server is back up and once I finish server maintenance.

Edit: Server is back up, maintenance is nearly finished, but everybody can go ahead and use Redux. Thanks for your patience. :)

Edit 2: Users now can comment on packets and documents. Editors and administrators also now have ability to delete comments. Enjoy.

Edit 3: Camel, you've been made an editor.