Ahh, it's about time! Some people are starting to say that the U.S. mid term elections have something to do with the time he was sentenced.

This is "breaking news" right now but this seems to be the only article out so far, will probably be lots more later:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/05/dujail.saddam/

Good to see that they're setting an example in Iraq: remember Iraqi people, violence is NOT the answer.  Errr.. ok, violence is sometimes the answer.  Ok, how's this: violence is only the answer when it's not violence against the US?


My point is, they're trying to discourage terrorism and killing in Iraq, yet it's ok that their leader got sentenced to be hanged?  Capital punishment teaches people that murder/killing IS an answer, and that's the wrong lesson. 

In my opinion, at the very least, they should have sentenced him to life in prison, then then people forgot about it disappear him. 

Why does everything always have to be reduced to partisan politics? Maybe it's justice thats being served...

Partisan politics?  Killing somebody isn't justice.  Killing somebody is revenge. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=15982.msg160787#msg160787 date=1162749046]
In my opinion, at the very least, they should have sentenced him to life in prison, then then people forgot about it disappear him.   
[/quote]
In a lot of cases, revenge is the only closure some people can find.  This guy killed millions of people in Iraq.  He has devastated millions of lives.  He turned what was once a rather wealthy country into a miserable place to live, for the most part.

Had we caught Hitler alive, should we have kept him alive?

How about Osama?

I'm having trouble thinking of other examples right now, but you get my drift.

When does it become not wrong, if ever?

[quote author=iago link=topic=15982.msg160797#msg160797 date=1162755428]
Partisan politics? 
[/quote]

[quote]
Some people are starting to say that the U.S. mid term elections have something to do with the time he was sentenced.
[/quote]

[quote author=iago link=topic=15982.msg160797#msg160797 date=1162755428]
Killing somebody isn't justice.  Killing somebody is revenge. 
[/quote]

Leaving him to rot in a jail cell for thirty years is revenge too.

Either way, it's state sanctioned murder. No way about it, might as well pick and choose.

His crime is of such severity that no punishment is adequate. I think that sitting in jail till he dies of natural causes would be a better punishment than execution, but there we are.

Yeah, iago, but the death penalty is terrorism and all.

[quote]"the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."[/quote]

Oh, wait, it's not.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=15982.msg160810#msg160810 date=1162759464]
Yeah, iago, but the death penalty is terrorism and all.

[quote]"the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."[/quote]

Oh, wait, it's not.
[/quote]

wtf?

Good. I hope he hangs for a while before he dies.

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=15982.msg160821#msg160821 date=1162766652]
Good. I hope he hangs for a while before he dies.
[/quote]
I second that.

Iraqis sentenced an Iraqi murderer to death.

These self-serving and self-righteous organizations and people condemn the execution of this poor man. Justice was not served because they say so!

Chinese sentence a farmer to death because his neighbor was jealous of him and made up lies that he was for conspiring to topple the Chinese communist government. About 15,000 people are executed a year by the Chinese government.

No one cares.


"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
-Joseph Stalin

I despise these self-serving and self-righteous people; they are the cancer in once society.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=15982.msg160866#msg160866 date=1162837194]
Chinese sentence a farmer to death because his neighbor was jealous of him and made up lies that he was for conspiring to topple the Chinese communist government. About 15,000 people are executed a year by the Chinese government.
[/quote]
Source?

hurray.

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=15982.msg160821#msg160821 date=1162766652]
Good. I hope he hangs for a while before he dies.
[/quote]

They need to stand him on a platform resting on a hydrolic jack, that goes down around two feet over 12 hours, causing intense pain but not killing him for a long time.

Or better yet nail him to a cross. People don't bleed to death from crucifixion, they either suffocate or get lead poisioning (suffocation comes if they're tied down, poisioning if their nailed down).

Or nail his dick to a stump and make him starve.

EDIT -
Made first idea more clear, and added third.

[quote author=Joe[x86] link=topic=15982.msg160889#msg160889 date=1162869805]
[quote author=Warrior link=topic=15982.msg160821#msg160821 date=1162766652]
Good. I hope he hangs for a while before he dies.
[/quote]

They need to stand him on a platform resting on a hydrolic jack, that goes down around two feet over 12 hours, causing intense pain but not killing him for a long time.

Or better yet nail him to a cross. People don't bleed to death from crucifixion, they either suffocate or get lead poisioning (suffocation comes if they're tied down, poisioning if their nailed down).

Or nail his dick to a stump and make him starve.

EDIT -
Made first idea more clear, and added third.
[/quote]Doing something inhumane to him, lowers us to his level.

like i hope they show it on tv

[quote author=powered by nissan link=topic=15982.msg160914#msg160914 date=1162880114]
like i hope they show it on tv
[/quote]
like i hope they show it on tv
[img]http://forums.clubrsx.com/images/smilies/yeahthat.gif[/img]

Saddam currently thinks that his actions were justified. That the atrocities he committed were perfectly normal things to do to traitors. This has been his argument in court: "Where's the crime?" is the question he's been asking. The purpose of his punishment, in my opinion, should be to show him that his actions were terrible crimes. Killing him will not accomplish that, and neither will any barbaric, cruel punishment.

Putting him in prison probably won't either, but it has a better chance than anything else.

Nah, killing him is showing others that what he did would not be accepted.  It shows Saddam nothing.

I agree with Arta:
There's absolutely no way to change his mind. In his mind, his cause is justified by his religion. He still firmly believes he's the president of Iraq (Judging from the cockyness in the way he talks to the Judge) and there's nothing wrong in what he did.

Then again, if he's left alive it would show that the world tolerates crimes against humanity. This is sort of similiar to when we captured and executed most of the leaders of the Nazi party after the war.

Say we caught Hitler, should we have jailed him for killing an estimated six million people in the Halocaust

Yes. Practically speaking, life imprisonment, perhaps mostly in solitary confinement, is a harsher punishment than death. On an ethical level it's much better, but on a personal one, much worse for the prisoner, and hence better for us.

For someone like Saddam, there is the added benefit of it being a humiliation instead of a martyrdom. I think life imprisonment "shows" others equally as much as a death sentence, while being more unpleasant for Saddam. Can you imagine being a world leader, having so much power that even your own ministers fear to look you in the eye, and then being forced to spend 20 years by yourself in a shitty jail cell eating bad pasta, while the people who were previously your subjects celebrate your fall from grace? I believe that's what life imprisonment would constitute. It's that, or let him strut proudly up to the gallows, die like he's lived, and instantly become a martyr to thousands of his Sunni supporters.

I'm quite sure that that's what he wants. Let's not give it to him.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think death penalty is a punishment.  Life imprisonment is a punishment, yes.  The Death Penalty is a resolution and brings some closure to the families of hundreds of thousands that Saddam Hussein has murdered, closure for the untold numbers he has tortured, and is the ultimate prevention mechanism.  During 20-50 years of imprisonment, things can change, governments can topple, and people can get freed from prison to take power again and repeat their crimes.  Kill him, don't torture him, and be done with it.  If we take the low road and torture him or kill him inhumanely, we've not represented a civil society, so I'm no supporter of radical sentences.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=15982.msg160966#msg160966 date=1162944274]
Yes. Practically speaking, life imprisonment, perhaps mostly in solitary confinement, is a harsher punishment than death. On an ethical level it's much better, but on a personal one, much worse for the prisoner, and hence better for us.

For someone like Saddam, there is the added benefit of it being a humiliation instead of a martyrdom. I think life imprisonment "shows" others equally as much as a death sentence, while being more unpleasant for Saddam. Can you imagine being a world leader, having so much power that even your own ministers fear to look you in the eye, and then being forced to spend 20 years by yourself in a shitty jail cell eating bad pasta, while the people who were previously your subjects celebrate your fall from grace? I believe that's what life imprisonment would constitute. It's that, or let him strut proudly up to the gallows, die like he's lived, and instantly become a martyr to thousands of his Sunni supporters.

I'm quite sure that that's what he wants. Let's not give it to him.
[/quote]

I disagree, if that's what he wanted he would be taking the the sentence a lot more lightly. I don't think he gives a damn about martyrdom, he wants to be back in his 15 palaces being served grapes. He's been imprisoned for a while, I think it's fair to kill him now considering I doubt he'll be treated vastly different from how he is being treated now. I agree with Grok and about closure. I am not sure how prison is, whether it's hell or not. I don't think it's EXTREME hell, since it's humane. Considering it's humane it's probably more then bearable. I sure wouldn't want Saddam rising to power again, if that occurs, the first place he's going to nuke is the United States.

Instead of torture, I say we just make him go crazy (that's not necessarily torture is it?). This solves the problem of him coming back to power, provides some closure considering he went bananas, and is...slightly humane? We can serve him half-decent pasta Arta, who cares he's a crazy now. What do you say?

I say death by leathal injection.

I think that the death penalty should be used, but not hanging. A leathal injection would provide less "marytrdom", while still giving closure.