Story here in the USA goes:
Senate passed bill to make being an illegal alien a felony.
People are protesting this.


My Views:
#1) Don't tell me this country was built on immigration, I know that, but if you're gonna be here...do it legally
#2) If them illegal aliens don't want to become felons, BECOME A LEGAL IMMIGRANT!!...DUR
#3) I ain't so worried about no mexican dude taking my job, I ain't wanting to pick no strawberries...I DO care that they drive around here without insurance, they use our health insurance, they pay no taxes...all free of charge.
#4) I think we ought to let people work here legally provided they keep & maintain vehicle insurance & pay some sort of taxes

What do y'all think about this current issue thing?

I think it should be much easier to bring a family over on either a work visa or to become citizens.  I understand the conditions in Mexico suck and if I had a chance I would want to move too.

That being said, nothing annoys me more than almost the entire hispanic portion of San Antonio not having  insurance. 

[quote author=Forged link=topic=14611.msg149307#msg149307 date=1143610174]
I think it be much easier to bring a family over on either a work visa or to become citizens.  I understand the conditions in Mexico suck and if I had a chance I would want to move too.

That being said, nothing annoys me more than almost the entire hispanic portion of San Antonio not having  insurance. 
[/quote]Word, uninsured people suck.

The senate didn't pass the bill, the House of Reprsenatives passed it, therefore it's not law yet.  Additionally, the Senate is debating a less strict illegal immigration bill currently, which will allow illegal immigrants to remain in the USA by paying a $1,000.00 fine and a few other requirements which I forget.  Seems the Senate bill has support from the president, republicans, and democrats, unlike the stricter house of representatives bill.

I basically agree with all of that. I agree that I'd probably flee from Mexico if I we're in their spot, but thats still no excuse to let it continue. I think they should pass even the more strict approaches that I've heard so far from people like Jim Sensenbrenner and Tom Tancredo. It's illegal, and if we're going to have police strictly enforcing lame things like speed limits :P then we sure as hell should enforce this. I'm completely pro allowing someone to enter the country legally. The only real compromise on this matter that I see, is that we should work harder to speed up the process of people who apply to join the USA legally, as well as adding in strict laws against the ones who try to come here illegally. I guess that all costs money somewhere along the road, but that is the only smart way to do it in my eyes.

incidentally, making it a felony = dumb, why crowd jails with them?

Just make a law that they can either become citizens or be sent back. 

I would imagine the theory there is that they will be deported, but the felony will stay on their record and they will find it hard to get a work visa or become a citizen in the future. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=14611.msg149348#msg149348 date=1143677479]
incidentally, making it a felony = dumb, why crowd jails with them?

Just make a law that they can either become citizens or be sent back. 

[/quote]I think they'd be deported, I hope.

Making it a felony is stupid.  As said, doing so means people fleeing economic hardship to come to the USA for opportunity (aren't we the land of?) would be classified as crminals.  Not because they are criminals, but because we made a law turning them into criminals.  Worse idea than most of the drug laws that turn users into criminals.  Second, by turning them into felons, we'd have to jail them, as already mentioned.  The burden on our judicial system would be crazy, and the jails would have to be expanded yet again.  We're the worst industrialized nation in the world when it comes to jailing our citizens.  Why are we so eager to jail everyone who doesn't fit our specific mold?  Don't like how someone lives?  Criminalize part of their life and now they're FELONS, omg.

Because they are criminals on other levels too.  But since they arent registered you can't catch them as easily since you don't know they're here.

Car insurance & taxes, not having that is breaking a law, should just deported them on the first no insurance ticket?

I believe recentlly here in san antonio they started empounding your car and not giving it back untill you have insurance, of course, I don't kno whow enforced that is.  I was pulled over around a month ago and the insurance card I had in my car had expired and he didn't say anything about it.

1,000 dollar fine? I you kidding me...gee, thats like, less than half a year of insurance for most peoples vehicles.. I think that it should be a felony, and that they be immidiatly sent back to Mexico, or where-ever they came from. Or even, them be kept in prison, but given the option to work labor for places that need it...for example..

And immigrant is caught, and given two options. Option A.) Go back to Mexico and be put in jail on their soil. OR, Option B.) Go to American Immigrant Prison, where there they could be given the chance to register themselves as U.S. citizens, and also be given a job, jobs that community service workers usually have, but instead they get payed, but also have taxes deducted from that pay. After a term of 2 years they are off Temporary Arrest to that job given, and able to go apply elsewhere and have been given time to appropriate themselves to American Society. In the time that they work, housing will be provided. I think its a good idea, and it'd be benificial to the economy.

[quote author=Ishbar link=topic=14611.msg149416#msg149416 date=1143748431]
And immigrant is caught, and given two options. Option A.) Go back to Mexico and be put in jail on their soil.
[/quote]

Why would they put in jail on their soil? That doesn't make sense.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14611.msg149391#msg149391 date=1143724703]
Making it a felony is stupid.  As said, doing so means people fleeing economic hardship to come to the USA for opportunity (aren't we the land of?) would be classified as crminals.  Not because they are criminals, but because we made a law turning them into criminals.  Worse idea than most of the drug laws that turn users into criminals.  Second, by turning them into felons, we'd have to jail them, as already mentioned.  The burden on our judicial system would be crazy, and the jails would have to be expanded yet again.  We're the worst industrialized nation in the world when it comes to jailing our citizens.  Why are we so eager to jail everyone who doesn't fit our specific mold?  Don't like how someone lives?  Criminalize part of their life and now they're FELONS, omg.
[/quote]

We aren't jailing someone for fitting a specific mold. We're jailing someone for NOT RESPECTING BORDERS, AND CHEATING EVERYONE ELSE.

[quote author=Banana fanna fo fanna link=topic=14611.msg149418#msg149418 date=1143751715]
We aren't jailing someone for fitting a specific mold. We're jailing someone for NOT RESPECTING BORDERS, AND CHEATING EVERYONE ELSE.
[/quote]

That kind of argument can be made against every non-Native person in the Americas, but somehow that is not a valid arugment.

Personally, I think it's just capitalism at its best. Ahh, but when it starts affecting me, the American, then suddenly I'm not all for capitalism. Seems like there is something much deeper than that.

[quote author=dxoigmn link=topic=14611.msg149421#msg149421 date=1143753308]
[quote author=Banana fanna fo fanna link=topic=14611.msg149418#msg149418 date=1143751715]
We aren't jailing someone for fitting a specific mold. We're jailing someone for NOT RESPECTING BORDERS, AND CHEATING EVERYONE ELSE.
[/quote]

That kind of argument can be made against every non-Native person in the Americas, but somehow that is not a valid arugment.

Personally, I think it's just capitalism at its best. Ahh, but when it starts affecting me, the American, then suddenly I'm not all for capitalism. Seems like there is something much deeper than that.
[/quote]No it can't.

When most people came over it was unrestricted access to America.  People were (&still are) coming in the groves because its the land of oppurtunity.  Now that restrictions have been placed it is breaking the law.

Also, they ARE cheating everyone else by now paying taxes & driving uninsured (& registered too I assume)

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg149428#msg149428 date=1143756847]
No it can't.
[/quote]

Yes it can. The indians were there before you.

Make a pact with Mexico? lol, idk. Where we give them an X ammount of money to provide for the jailee's. Knowing mexico they'll prolly use all of that money for a fancy motor scooter  :P

[quote author=Adron link=topic=14611.msg149456#msg149456 date=1143778997]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg149428#msg149428 date=1143756847]
No it can't.
[/quote]

Yes it can. The indians were there before you.
[/quote]We didn't cheat when we took their land...we just came in & moved them away...they didn't have laws against it.  We attacked, they defended...fair & square, we won.  (its jacked up, but true)

The mexicans are cheating.  They're moving in, when we try to defend ourselves they get all f'ing riled up about rights they don't even really have under MY Constitution, hell, I don't even know if Mexico has a Constitution. (I never learned mexican history other than that we kicked them out of here too)
They steal from us (in ways) & we take advantage of them (in ways)...since its our turf we make the rules & they play by them or stuff gets nasty.  They aren't playing the game right & stuff is getting nasty, maybe we ought masacre the illegal immigrants like we did the indians ...

I can barely believe what I just read in the post above this.  I don't think what you've said is even worthy of being dignified with a proper response.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg149463#msg149463 date=1143788172]
[quote author=Adron link=topic=14611.msg149456#msg149456 date=1143778997]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg149428#msg149428 date=1143756847]
No it can't.
[/quote]

Yes it can. The indians were there before you.
[/quote]We didn't cheat when we took their land...we just came in & moved them away...they didn't have laws against it.  We attacked, they defended...fair & square, we won.  (its jacked up, but true)

The mexicans are cheating.  They're moving in, when we try to defend ourselves they get all f'ing riled up about rights they don't even really have under MY Constitution, hell, I don't even know if Mexico has a Constitution. (I never learned mexican history other than that we kicked them out of here too)
They steal from us (in ways) & we take advantage of them (in ways)...since its our turf we make the rules & they play by them or stuff gets nasty.  They aren't playing the game right & stuff is getting nasty, maybe we ought masacre the illegal immigrants like we did the indians ...
[/quote]

Yeah, they have a constitution, believe it or not they even have a democratically elected leader...

[quote author=Rule link=topic=14611.msg149465#msg149465 date=1143788693]
I can barely believe what I just read in the post above this.  I don't think what you've said is even worthy of being dignified with a proper response.

[/quote]All I said is that illegal immgrants (generally mexicans) are stealing from us in ways and when we try to stop it everyone cries about it.

When we stole from the indians they killed us & we ended up in bloody battles in which we won.  The indians "had their chance" kind of a thing, a time in which they could prove themselves & say "hey, back off"...we're trying to do that now with illegal immigration & people (I see alot of kids on TV really) protesting us fighting back against illegal immgrants stealing from us.

So let's posit that Indians are a conquered people, as you would suggest CrAz3D. Then why would the United States enter into treaties which, I remind you, are the supreme law of the land by the United State's own Consititution? That does not make sense. You only enter into treaties with foreign nations, not conquered peoples.

Our governmental structures, by today's standards, were more sophisticated than the United State's very own government. In fact, there is much evidence pointing to the fact that the founding father's looked to the Iroquois Confederacy (one of the many tribes having laws as Forged suggests) and other surrounding tribes for ideas to use in the US Constitution. Just because we did not fashion laws in the same manner as Europeans did (i.e. that we choose laws democractically), does not mean laws did not exist.

Can you not have treaties with nations you have defeated in war?

Anyway, while watching local news right now (we're right on the border & near El Paso which is basically apart of Juarez & has a few hundred thousand mexicans) I saw where kids had walked out & were "protesting".  Police bought in busses to take them home & the kids started rioting, throwing stuff, kicking the busses, and so on.  It was labeled a Cesar Chavez march.

These kids are destroying ANY support they might get.  I'm not exactly possitive, but wasn't he a peaceful protester like Martin Luther King Jr.? 
Damn kids.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg149482#msg149482 date=1143816790]
Can you not have treaties with nations you have defeated in war?

Anyway, while watching local news right now (we're right on the border & near El Paso which is basically apart of Juarez & has a few hundred thousand mexicans) I saw where kids had walked out & were "protesting". Police bought in busses to take them home & the kids started rioting, throwing stuff, kicking the busses, and so on. It was labeled a Cesar Chavez march.

These kids are destroying ANY support they might get. I'm not exactly possitive, but wasn't he a peaceful protester like Martin Luther King Jr.?
Damn kids.
[/quote]

Yes. It's difficult to keep a captive people passive without making them think they're being treated equally or fairly - thats what treaties with the Native Americans are veiled under.

The mass slaughter of the Native Americans was a horrible affair and shall never be repeated and was wrong. The fact is, if the Mexicans had superior weaponry and diseases which Americans weren't immune to, then they can cross our border as much as they want because, well, brute force can break laws. However, enforcing our own border laws is a must. If we don't enforce those laws, its a slippery slope to lax enforcement of everything else. In principle, this is wrong. In practice, it's a huge security breach as well as a giant reason healthcare costs in the United States are what they are.

Get out of my country you illegals. Come back when you decide to wait in line and become legal citizens.

That's my opinion, and I doubt any of you can persuade me to believe that the illegal immigrants are better citizens than those who take the time to become legal.

From the law that I did see, it wouldn't jail them per say. It would detain(jail) them until they are deported though.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/immigration/index.html
[quote]In Lexington, Kentucky, they waved signs that read: "We were all immigrants once," and "We are not terrorists," The Associated Press reported.[/quote]
What are these people, retarded or something?  The controversy is being made out to be immigration vs. anti-immigration, it is about (as was mentioned to me, which sounds rather true), sovereignty.

Misinformed people suck.
Someone needs to inform them, which seems hard to do.  When one dude calls the feds (saw this clip on CNN) & says "hey, there are self proclaimed illegals here, come deport them" the illegals scream racism & such...
I discriminate against stupid people, that is what I support.  Stupid isn't ignorance, but ignorant people can become stupid people rather easily.

The Senate proposal I mentioned earlier was passed last week some time while the strict House of Representative legislation is still in debate, though it seems unlikely at this point it has a chance of passing in the Senate.

[quote author=Mephisto link=topic=14611.msg150351#msg150351 date=1144712767]
The Senate proposal I mentioned earlier was passed last week some time while the strict House of Representative legislation is still in debate, though it seems unlikely at this point it has a chance of passing in the Senate.
[/quote]did it not just fail in the senate the other day?


EDIT:
[img]http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/POLITICS/04/10/immigration/t1vert.2145.kansas.ap.jpg[/img]
If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150354#msg150354 date=1144713256]If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded
[/quote]

Yes, they are.  They really are f'ing retarded.

You do not create a criminal by making a law against someone who is otherwise doing nothing wrong.  Jose come to America, gets a job doing crap work at crap pay and taking your abuse, but not complaining a bit, just happy to be living a peaceful life at $2/hr.  So you make a law against his existence, which makes his existence "ILLEGAL" (using all caps because you think it is necessary) here.  By pure definition, your definition, he is now a CRIMINAL.

If I made a law against green shirts, everyone who is wearing one would be a CRIMINAL.  But are they criminals?  No, they're just wearing green shirts, which f'ing retards would make ILLEGAL by creating a law against them.  Other f'ing retards make laws against decent people who come to the US to live peacefully and work, so those f'ing retards who made the laws, and those f'ing retards who support the laws, call the peaceful people CRIMINAL, and they do it in all caps.

The law existed before Jose came over.  Immigrations laws are needed and you know damn well that they are.

[quote]make laws against decent people who come to the US to live peacefully and work[/quote]
What about the illegal immigrants whom aren't from Mexico looking for work?  What about the people that can get over the US-Mexico border in the same fashion as the mexicans looking for work?  You have drug runners, terrorists, and human smugglers.  Should we just accept those people as a necessary side effect to allowing people to cross our borders whenever they feel like it?

What about the public facilities the illegals use that they do not pay for?  Is that fair for anyone in Ameica?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150354#msg150354 date=1144713256]
If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded
[/quote]
Then get your ass out of the USA and give it back to the Native American Indians, because, you are just an immigrant on there land, if you want to put it that way. :P

We can't we all just share :P

i have no problems with them mexicans, they make our lives alot easier tbh, without them a majority of our landscaping and if you own biznesss's, would go down the barrel.  there good people who just want to make it in the world, and i say they are more then welcome in the land of oppurtunity usa :P

as for the native americans mister ringo, I think they are quite happy hustling us with thier casinos :)

[quote author=Ringo link=topic=14611.msg150401#msg150401 date=1144765033]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150354#msg150354 date=1144713256]
If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded
[/quote]
Then get your ass out of the USA and give it back to the Native American Indians, because, you are just an immigrant on there land, if you want to put it that way. :P
[/quote]
If you want to put it that way, the Mexicans were here first.  However, after war and treaties we won, they lost, game over, it is belong to us now.  Also, I'm not an immigrant that came over during the major persecution of Indians, my families came here after that.


[quote author=MysT_DooM link=topic=14611.msg150402#msg150402 date=1144765855]
We can't we all just share :P

i have no problems with them mexicans, they make our lives alot easier tbh, without them a majority of our landscaping and if you own biznesss's, would go down the barrel.  there good people who just want to make it in the world, and i say they are more then welcome in the land of oppurtunity usa :P

as for the native americans mister ringo, I think they are quite happy hustling us with thier casinos :)
[/quote]
Sharing is nice, but it works 2 ways.  The illegal immigrants are getting the benefits of our economy, our health care, and our schools.  We benefit from their cheap labor, yes.  I'd REALLY like to see a study done on how much illegal immigrants contribute to our economy vs. how much they hurt our economy.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14611.msg150398#msg150398 date=1144753635]
You do not create a criminal by making a law against someone who is otherwise doing nothing wrong.[/quote]
Holy fuck.  Grok, they were here illegally first.  They are already criminals.  By being here illegally.  That's why they're called "illegal" immigrants.

I completely agree with Grok. The nature of criminality is far more complex than a simple matter of law.

I think the argument that illegal immigrants mainly have jobs and do work that American citizens don't want is compelling. Obviously it would be preferable if people didn't immigrate illegally, but in my mind, that raises a simple question: why do people choose to enter America illegally? I don't know the details, but I'd imagine there must be some reason that people don't choose the legal route.

Okay, we came and we took the land by force from the natives. Now they tried to stop us right? Okay so they lost.

Now, they are coming into our land and we don't want them here. Plain and simple they will be forced off or tried as criminals if they do not stop coming. It goes to extremes because of them.

It's a game of which country is stronger, and we are. If we don't want them here then they damn sure arn't going to be here.

One person says get out and come back legally.  OK, let's explore that.  Is that what you want someone to do?  The question then becomes, is the "legal immigration process" designed such as to encourage immigration to America, or to prevent it?  If it is designed to encourage it, then it is probably an expiditious process which would allow someone to move here legally on a temporary work visa while they pursue citizenship.

However, we all know that is not true.  Immigration laws are designed to keep people out.  America is build with immigrants such as Crazed's great- or great-great- grandparents, and on the backs of my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents who literally helped bring thousands of immigrants to settle the Guadalupe River Basin area in Texas.

Some time, and I don't know when, certain elite Americans decided they would stop people from coming to America, and thus keep all the generous economy to themselves.  And voila, we have more billionaires than any country in the world, more poverty than any industrialized nation, with the largest percentage of our "legal" citizens locked up in harsh prisons which do not make any pretense at rehabilitation.  Pitting Americans against immigrants is a terrific distraction from the real issues we have in this country.  I'm happy to see so many sheep dutifully doing the will of their herder and fighting against honest hard-working people who want nothing more than to live in peace and raise a family in a place where their prosperity can be a direct result of their sweat and tears.

There are Americans who forget all of that and willfully baa-aa-aa their chants of "ILLEGAL by definition" and "CRIMINALS" when talking about these good people.  Are they all good?  No, there are probably actual criminals in that population the same as there are criminals walking past you in the mall, wearing their Dockers and Old Navy.  But "illegal immigrants" is a double slam that can get the most simple-minded into a lather, thankfully forgetting the steady soaking being done to them by the super rich and elite, thankfully forgetting that our educational system stinks so bad that free thinking is not even a concept in US public schools.  For if we taught the sheep to think, we might have actual interest in solving real problems and not infighting against OMG, illegal immigrants.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=14611.msg150427#msg150427 date=1144780633]
I completely agree with Grok. The nature of criminality is far more complex than a simple matter of law.

I think the argument that illegal immigrants mainly have jobs and do work that American citizens don't want is compelling. Obviously it would be preferable if people didn't immigrate illegally, but in my mind, that raises a simple question: why do people choose to enter America illegally? I don't know the details, but I'd imagine there must be some reason that people don't choose the legal route.
[/quote]
But is the argument compelling enough to allow people to break into our country?
If the issue is cheap labor, hell, let's bring back slavery!  I bet that is even CHEAPER than illegal immigrants, plus it is could be legal!
I Support Slavery For '06!


Grok, what do you suppose would happen to America if we had no immigration laws at all?  Do you think people would both to report themselves when they come here?  Do you think our quality of life would be any better than it is now?

I believe most people would see oppurtunity, come here and work...without reporting themselves, without paying taxes, but still demanding that the American government offer schooling and other public services.
I think our quality of life would plummet.  We would become a 3rd world country.  No law, no order, no control, no taxes, no decent public facilities, it would be hell on earth just like most of Mexico is today.
You don't want to live in a good America I suggest you get your confused ass down to Mexico and see what happens when no real control is taken.  Spend a few years in hell, you'll come back with a new perspective.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150435#msg150435 date=1144790843]You don't want to live in a good America I suggest you get your confused ass down to Mexico and see what happens when no real control is taken.  Spend a few years in hell, you'll come back with a new perspective.[/quote]

Because this is what you have done?

I have travelled to a dozen countries and rather than go straight for titty bars and get stone cold drunk, I preferred to talk to the people and learn about their lives, believes, their daily routines, their politics, what they worry about, and just general bullshit.  It quickly removed any provincialism that I might have been afflicted with prior to leaving the United States.

You, in my opinion, are grossly provincialized, and that is a terrible flaw for a humankind to have who considers himself part of humanity.  It seems you consider yourself not a human, but a god damned red blooded shit kicking give em hell Harry, American.  Is this far from the truth?

Then you obviously know how bad it is in Mexico because they have laws they do not enforce.

You never answered my question, you avoided it nicely.
I'll ask again, maybe you missed it the first time.

Do you think the United States would be better off with unrestricted access?  Anyone coming whenever they please without reporting themselves?  Would our quality of life increase/decrease/stay as it is? 

The people who helped build up Americas economy lived+died here most likely. So because one generation of a particular race helps our country we're supposed to let everyone in? Sorry. Being American is a priviledge.

Like I said, we are a superpower and can do whatever we want whenever we want. Whoever doesn't like it is wrong and probably weak. If we say we don't want Mexicans then we don't want them.

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=14611.msg150564#msg150564 date=1144966227]
If we say we don't want Mexicans then we don't want them.

[/quote]it isnt that..I want mexicans, mainly because I dont want to pick fruit + I like eating fruit.
i just dont want illegal immigrants

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14611.msg150432#msg150432 date=1144787315]
There are Americans who forget all of that and willfully baa-aa-aa their chants of "ILLEGAL by definition" and "CRIMINALS" when talking about these good people.  Are they all good?  No, there are probably actual criminals in that population the same as there are criminals walking past you in the mall, wearing their Dockers and Old Navy.  But "illegal immigrants" is a double slam that can get the most simple-minded into a lather, thankfully forgetting the steady soaking being done to them by the super rich and elite, thankfully forgetting that our educational system stinks so bad that free thinking is not even a concept in US public schools.  For if we taught the sheep to think, we might have actual interest in solving real problems and not infighting against OMG, illegal immigrants.
[/quote]

You touch on a good point here Grok, which is a matter of verbiage. 

[quote]Carlos Morales, who illegally immigrated from Mexico about 18 months ago, said in an interview at a work center in northern Phoenix that the law that ends funding to work centers is typical of politics in the aftermath of Prop 200.

"After Proposition 200, it seems everything is against the migrant. It's racist. Everything seems to be blamed on the migrant," Morales said in Spanish through a translator. [/quote]

The problem is not the migrant.  I have a good friend whose family immigrated from Mexico.  We went to high school together.  He's organizing a rally against people who did not go through the hoops to come here legally.


These are people who are not paying taxes.  Who are not paying for health or vehicle insurance.  Did you know that every time I pay my car insurance I get kicked because I live in a state on the border?  I have to pay "uninsured or underinsured driver's insurance."  I guarantee you that, despite the fact that Arizona has laws on the books that every driver must have proof of insurance in his car at all times, the uninsured/underinsured part of the fee is not cheaper than in states where it's not a law. 


Then there's the issue of hospitalization costs.

[quote]Although undocumented workers help provide labor for Arizona’s booming construction business, they also impose costs. Jim Dickson, who runs a hospital five miles from the Mexican border, says emergency room care for illegal immigrants has risen from $30,000 to more than $350,000 in only four years.

"We're in a war down here to preserve the health system," Dickson told Stateline.org.
[/quote]

Two hospitals outside of Tucson, AZ last year had to close because it is illegal to turn away people from an emergency room.  They were so inundated with illegal immigrants who did not have health insurance that they were operating at a major loss.  In the Phoenix metro area, wait times during non-peak times in the ER can be up to twelve hours, because a child who doesn't have medical coverage has an ear infection.


...and then housing costs.
[quote]Law enforcement officials and lawmakers such as Pearce also contend that crime follows illegal immigrants across the border. The state prison system spent $77 million last year detaining more than 4,000 illegal immigrants.[/quote]


Of course, it must be nice not having to worry about that kind of thing, not living in a border state, or specifically a border state from which two thirds of illegal immigrants are arrested.

That's why my proposed legislation is so effective.  It provides for expediency for people who are not interested in assimilating, just working; it resolves the concern that people are here whom we don't know; it resolves the concern that those people aren't paying taxes; and it ensures that people are insured as necessary.

Source.  (I cannot vouch for the NPOV of this website; I obtained it through a Google search).

[quote author=MysT_DooM link=topic=14611.msg150402#msg150402 date=1144765855]
We can't we all just share :P

i have no problems with them mexicans, they make our lives alot easier tbh, without them a majority of our landscaping and if you own biznesss's, would go down the barrel.  there good people who just want to make it in the world, and i say they are more then welcome in the land of oppurtunity usa :P

as for the native americans mister ringo, I think they are quite happy hustling us with thier casinos :)
[/quote]

Do you live in texas?  I think if you did your attitude would be a tad diffrent...

I have no problems with imigrants, in fact, I think it should be easier and quicker to become a citizen.  My only beef with illegals is that
1.They don't pay taxs yet help in the crowding of the ,already crowded, schools
2.They do not have car insurance and can not legally get it, yet they still drive

Making it easier for them to become citizens would fix both of these problems.

[quote author=Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution]The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion...[/quote]
hmm, interesting...


EDIT:
GO GEORGIA GOVERNOR!

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150748#msg150748 date=1145329961]
EDIT:
GO GEORGIA GOVERNOR!
[/quote]
I would just like to say that Arizona was the first state to do that.  And it was a citizen initiative, not through the governor/legislature.  Go prop 200! :D

[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=14611.msg150750#msg150750 date=1145330463]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150748#msg150748 date=1145329961]
EDIT:
GO GEORGIA GOVERNOR!
[/quote]
I would just like to say that Arizona was the first state to do that.  And it was a citizen initiative, not through the governor/legislature.  Go prop 200! :D
[/quote]nice!
do u know how 1 would go about that?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150751#msg150751 date=1145330940]
[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=14611.msg150750#msg150750 date=1145330463]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14611.msg150748#msg150748 date=1145329961]
EDIT:
GO GEORGIA GOVERNOR!
[/quote]
I would just like to say that Arizona was the first state to do that.  And it was a citizen initiative, not through the governor/legislature.  Go prop 200! :D
[/quote]nice!
do u know how 1 would go about that?
[/quote]

You need to check your state law.  The Arizona State Constitution provides for citizen's initiative to allow legislation to bypass the legislature and be put on the general ballot given enough signatures.

hmm, sounds like it'd be a fun project sometime

Might of been worded wrong but you get the point.

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=14611.msg150763#msg150763 date=1145353994]
Might of been worded wrong but you get the point.
[/quote]What?

Why do some people insist that it would be impossible to get rid of 12 million illegals? Mexico got rid of 12 million legals why would we have a problem getting rid of 12 million illegals?

The solution to the problem is not how to find them, pack them up, and transport them but how to discourage them from staying.

Denying them all the rights that a citizen of the United States has will send them packing immediately. No more free medical, no more jobs, no more housing, no more education. We need to persuade them that being legal in Mexico is much better than being an illegal here.

Just imagine how great this will be, our medical costs will go down and our prison population will decrease by 25%, the farming industry will become a more prominent industry to work in. The cost of your strawberries will increase but so will the farmers minimum wage. The money saved in taxes on medical care and the reduction of prisoners will more then cover the cost of your trips to the grocery store.

Who will pick my strawberries? Who will take those farm jobs and other jobs that we were told Americans are unwilling to do? This is where we start talking about the welfare system or should I just say this is where the welfare system stops and a job placement program begins. How do you like that you lazy Americans that sit on welfare?

There are of course minor details that can be worked out for the best success of my ideas but I do not wish to get into them since sadly the liberal communists would never go for bettering my country.

works for me....mostly.
maybe we could use volunteer prison labor too.

side note: my letts made both papers (the city paper letter was less efined & shorter:() but i still am gettin good feedback. ppl r callin my grandma, lol