http://images.google.com/images?q=sikh%20dagger&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wi
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060302/wl_canada_nm/canada_religion_canada_sikh_col

How does that make sense?
I can see accept little crosses or something, but an 8" knife?
Shouldn't safety TOTALLY trump "religious freedom" in this case?

Canada, Oh Canada, what crazy nuts are in your courts?

[quote]Orthodox Sikhs have been required to carry kirpans since the 1600s. Some say the original purpose was for defense but many insist it is not a weapon.[/quote]
[img]http://www.religionfacts.com/sikhism/images/kirpan.jpg[/img]
Oh yeah, that TOTALLY isn't a weapon?


At what point should people stopping bending over backwards for stupid things like this?

Does this decision make sense to anyone here?

Has there ever been an incident where these knives have injured someone (excluding self defense)? Religious issues are very touchy, and (most) governments don't want to come off as biased in cases like these.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=14412.msg147495#msg147495 date=1141366654]
Has there ever been an incident where these knives have injured someone (excluding self defense)? Religious issues are very touchy, and (most) governments don't want to come off as biased in cases like these.
[/quote]
That specific knife?  I dunno
Since the Sikh? people used to carry them for defense back in the day I'd assume they were used for fighting.

But an 8" dagger in school?  What kind of math class are you failing, come on now

Thanks moderators, you deleted my humorous post.

Anyhow, it is rediculously to assert that it isn't a weapon ... its a knife.
However, in the early church, Christians were persecuted.  Times were also different, it's not like they had the national guard or the police ... some of them even had body guards.  It makes sense that they carried some sort of weaponry.  I hear some of the early Catholic bishops were trained militants.

I MADE sense that they carry a knife.  Knives are very useful, I always carry one.  I didn't take one to school ever, I would been suspened...after that I would've got the belt.

There was a very large debate about this over the last couple weeks. 

The people have to carry the daggers as part of their religion.  They aren't allowed to draw them, and nobody has ever been injured by one.  In Canada, we have religious freedom, and this is part of it.  Like it or not, Sheik children are allowed to celebrate their religion. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=14412.msg147515#msg147515 date=1141403042]
There was a very large debate about this over the last couple weeks. 

The people have to carry the daggers as part of their religion.  They aren't allowed to draw them, and nobody has ever been injured by one.  In Canada, we have religious freedom, and this is part of it.  Like it or not, Sheik children are allowed to celebrate their religion. 
[/quote]
But shouldn't pverall safety trump the religion?

Say Sihk kid is in some sort of scuffle @ school the knife comes out (by him or by the other student)...that just seems nuts to allow KIDS to tote knives around in class.


Out of curiosity, anyone know the requirements to be a religion?
I want to start one that requires me to be intoxicated during all history/government type classes from age 15 on.
I also NEED to carry a 9mm pistol from age 9 to protect myself from daemons that materialize themselves.

So far, nobody has been injured by the dagger.  So what safety issue?

If I had to guess, I'd say that the dagger is secured in the sheath so that it can't easily be drawn.  That would make it pretty safe.

And I don't know what the requirement for forming a religion is, but I'd like to find out. :P.  Seriously though, I doubt anybody can just go ahead and start their own religion.  That would be calle d cult. 

yeah, I recall reading that thing about the Brazilian (wtf are brazilians doing in my state!?) tea.

[quote]# A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.[/quote]

I believe I can find people to join me, not follow me, in a quest for a greater existance.  Being intoxicated while in a gov/hist class could allow us to look at things from other points of views (maybe some that don't exist ;)).
The 9mm is strictly for protection from evils that materialize themselves.

Its all very logical, really.


Kids aren't allowed to take knives to school for the same reason I can't take a 9mm (now, not in my religion) into a schol & say "Hey, its ok dudes, I have the safety on".

I agree with Crazed. Religion has no place in schools -- other than for academic study.

Religion is part of the person, whether or not he's going to school.  That basically limits his choices:
- Not go to school
- Go to a private school designed for himself and the few others in the country (the population is so sparse that wouldn't work)
- Practice his religion at school


Incidentally, my city had an unofficial phone-in poll on issue.  As accurate or inaccurate that that is aside, people voted 89% in favor of allowing the dagger. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=14412.msg147543#msg147543 date=1141431816]
Religion is part of the person, whether or not he's going to school.  That basically limits his choices:
- Not go to school
- Go to a private school designed for himself and the few others in the country (the population is so sparse that wouldn't work)
- Practice his religion at school


Incidentally, my city had an unofficial phone-in poll on issue.  As accurate or inaccurate that that is aside, people voted 89% in favor of allowing the dagger. 
[/quote]
or just MAYBE he could enter the twenty first century & stop carry a knife designed 400+ years ago?

89% in support of carry weapons to school!?  That has got to be the most fucking ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!
Would your crazy town be supportive of "hallucenigenic tea" too?  What happens when a religion uses meth?  Should kids coming trippin out & steal the knives of the Sikh kids & stab the principal cause they thought he was coming to take their virginity or something?

Allowing this is just openning a Pandora's Box

CrAz3D, I hope you realize you blew that TOTALLY out of porportion. We have kids carrying hammers (real metal hammers, not just toys) around our school for no reason whatsoever, and they don't get in trouble. Why? Because they don't use them.

[quote author=Joe link=topic=14412.msg147602#msg147602 date=1141511050]
CrAz3D, I hope you realize you blew that TOTALLY out of porportion. We have kids carrying hammers (real metal hammers, not just toys) around our school for no reason whatsoever, and they don't get in trouble. Why? Because they don't use them.
[/quote]
By the same logic I could carry a 9mm into class & be ok because I don't use it.
I'd LOVE to carry a 9mm to class, but I can't buy one til I'm 23? I think.  That's dumb, its not like I'm going to kill anyone with it.

Would you, personally, feel safe if you knew every gang member in your school carried a gun to class?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147605#msg147605 date=1141516646]
[quote author=Joe link=topic=14412.msg147602#msg147602 date=1141511050]
CrAz3D, I hope you realize you blew that TOTALLY out of porportion. We have kids carrying hammers (real metal hammers, not just toys) around our school for no reason whatsoever, and they don't get in trouble. Why? Because they don't use them.
[/quote]
By the same logic I could carry a 9mm into class & be ok because I don't use it.
I'd LOVE to carry a 9mm to class, but I can't buy one til I'm 23? I think. That's dumb, its not like I'm going to kill anyone with it.

Would you, personally, feel safe if you knew every gang member in your school carried a gun to class?
[/quote]

That doesn't fit; gangs have a history of violence, but, AFAIK, Orthodox Sikh's don't.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=14412.msg147607#msg147607 date=1141516965]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147605#msg147605 date=1141516646]
[quote author=Joe link=topic=14412.msg147602#msg147602 date=1141511050]
CrAz3D, I hope you realize you blew that TOTALLY out of porportion. We have kids carrying hammers (real metal hammers, not just toys) around our school for no reason whatsoever, and they don't get in trouble. Why? Because they don't use them.
[/quote]
By the same logic I could carry a 9mm into class & be ok because I don't use it.
I'd LOVE to carry a 9mm to class, but I can't buy one til I'm 23? I think. That's dumb, its not like I'm going to kill anyone with it.

Would you, personally, feel safe if you knew every gang member in your school carried a gun to class?
[/quote]

That doesn't fit; gangs have a history of violence, but, AFAIK, Orthodox Sikh's don't.
[/quote]
I see alot of gang members with religious images painted on their cars/shirts...maybe they have their own underground religion, maybe they should start their own version of Catholism?
Maybe they should just follow the Sikh kids, jump them, & then use their knives.  We had a kid use a pipe in a fight at school, why use a pipe when a kid with an 8" knife walks by?

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=14412.msg147495#msg147495 date=1141366654]
Has there ever been an incident where these knives have injured someone (excluding self defense)?
[/quote]

There was a time when you could ask/say the same thing about firearms.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147550#msg147550 date=1141433518]
or just MAYBE he could enter the twenty first century & stop carry a knife designed 400+ years ago?

89% in support of carry weapons to school!?  That has got to be the most fucking ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!
Would your crazy town be supportive of "hallucenigenic tea" too?  What happens when a religion uses meth?  Should kids coming trippin out & steal the knives of the Sikh kids & stab the principal cause they thought he was coming to take their virginity or something?

Allowing this is just openning a Pandora's Box
[/quote]
The same can be said about your constitution allowing idiots to carry guns around. 

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147609#msg147609 date=1141517721]
I see alot of gang members with religious images painted on their cars/shirts...maybe they have their own underground religion, maybe they should start their own version of Catholism?
Maybe they should just follow the Sikh kids, jump them, & then use their knives.  We had a kid use a pipe in a fight at school, why use a pipe when a kid with an 8" knife walks by?
[/quote]
Do you know how easy/hard it is to grab somebody's knife?  Is it sealed into the sheath, or loose?  Also, how sharp is it?  Do you know?  If not, how can you say that?  By your logic, should we start making it illegal to use pencils/pens/scissors in school, because they can be used to stab somebody?  I know somebody who was stabbed with a pencil such that he had to be taken to the hospital.  Is that enough to make pencils illegal in school?

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=14412.msg147616#msg147616 date=1141523572]
[quote author=Topaz link=topic=14412.msg147495#msg147495 date=1141366654]
Has there ever been an incident where these knives have injured someone (excluding self defense)?
[/quote]

There was a time when you could ask/say the same thing about firearms.
[/quote]
Weren't guns (handguns in particular) designed for the sole purpose of doing harm to people?  Guns don't have a religious significance, luckily, but at least if a kid wanted to bring a symbolic firearm to school it wouldn't be loaded :)

[quote author=iago link=topic=14412.msg147695#msg147695 date=1141623036]
Weren't guns (handguns in particular) designed for the sole purpose of doing harm to people?  Guns don't have a religious significance, luckily, but at least if a kid wanted to bring a symbolic firearm to school it wouldn't be loaded :)
[/quote]

Guns certainly have significance in US secular religion.  Does Canada celebrate a "shot heard 'round the world"?

The Constitution provides a reason for the weapons as well.

Depends what kind of sheath, either it just slides in or slides in & has a snapbutton strap that holds it in, I assume.  Its quite easy to undone a little snap.
Also, the basic purpose of a knife is to cut, so by having a knife you are always ready to cut something.
So if you had a religious gun you ought to have it loaded, there would be no point in carry something you couldn't use to its full potential.

I believe the original purpose of all guns is to kill, I don't think it was animal (us included) specific.


This whole thing is just an example of the pussification that takes place.  People ought to be able to use reason & realize that knives aren't safe in schools because if something does happen with one of *THOSE* kids then the result could be MUCH worse than if it were just a fist fight.  Then you have a mega lawsuit

What is the "shot heard 'round the world?"

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
Depends what kind of sheath, either it just slides in or slides in & has a snapbutton strap that holds it in, I assume.  Its quite easy to undone a little snap.
[/quote]
You know, I have two relatives in policework, both of whom carry a gun when on-duty.  They were explaining their holsters to me -- one of the holsters has four safeties.  When you get that complicated it's not "quite easy" to undo.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
Also, the basic purpose of a knife is to cut, so by having a knife you are always ready to cut something.
So if you had a religious gun you ought to have it loaded, there would be no point in carry something you couldn't use to its full potential.
[/quote]
Um....  or, you could have it there for show, not to shoot.  Do you understand maybe why we don't give you much credibility CrAz3D?  You make retarded assumptions like that.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
I believe the original purpose of all guns is to kill, I don't think it was animal (us included) specific.
[/quote]
Well, it's much more efficient to use a machete than an automatic to kill most plants.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
This whole thing is just an example of the pussification that takes place.  People ought to be able to use reason & realize that knives aren't safe in schools because if something does happen with one of *THOSE* kids then the result could be MUCH worse than if it were just a fist fight.  Then you have a mega lawsuit
[/quote]
Your lne of thought isn't clear here, so I don't understand what you're arguing.  People are being pussified, but it's not okay to have knives in school?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
What is the "shot heard 'round the world?"
[/quote]
Good god man, don't you live in the US?  [url]http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/RevAmerica/3-When/Shot.html[/url]

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
The Constitution provides a reason for the weapons as well.
[/quote]

Oh yeah?  And can you explain to me what the significance is of the knife, please?

[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=14412.msg147724#msg147724 date=1141658958]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
Depends what kind of sheath, either it just slides in or slides in & has a snapbutton strap that holds it in, I assume.  Its quite easy to undone a little snap.
[/quote]
You know, I have two relatives in policework, both of whom carry a gun when on-duty.  They were explaining their holsters to me -- one of the holsters has four safeties.  When you get that complicated it's not "quite easy" to undo.
[/quote]
I saw a security officer today, his holster had one strap over where the gun would be (we were in court so he couldn't carry).

[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=14412.msg147724#msg147724 date=1141658958]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
Also, the basic purpose of a knife is to cut, so by having a knife you are always ready to cut something.
So if you had a religious gun you ought to have it loaded, there would be no point in carry something you couldn't use to its full potential.
[/quote]

Um....  or, you could have it there for show, not to shoot.  Do you understand maybe why we don't give you much credibility CrAz3D?  You make retarded assumptions like that.
[/quote]
But a knife is always ready to use, I spose that's a better point to make.

[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=14412.msg147724#msg147724 date=1141658958]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
I believe the original purpose of all guns is to kill, I don't think it was animal (us included) specific.
[/quote]
Well, it's much more efficient to use a machete than an automatic to kill most plants.
[/quote]
Thats true...I believe I'm missing the point

[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=14412.msg147724#msg147724 date=1141658958]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
This whole thing is just an example of the pussification that takes place.  People ought to be able to use reason & realize that knives aren't safe in schools because if something does happen with one of *THOSE* kids then the result could be MUCH worse than if it were just a fist fight.  Then you have a mega lawsuit
[/quote]
Your lne of thought isn't clear here, so I don't understand what you're arguing.  People are being pussified, but it's not okay to have knives in school?
[/quote]
I mean people are trying to be too politically correct.  Sometimes it is better to have one whole generalized rule (or whatever) for people.

[quote author=MyndFyre[vL] link=topic=14412.msg147724#msg147724 date=1141658958]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
What is the "shot heard 'round the world?"
[/quote]
Good god man, don't you live in the US?  [url]http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/RevAmerica/3-When/Shot.html[/url]
[/quote]I've heard of it, never learned it though.

[quote author=iago link=topic=14412.msg147728#msg147728 date=1141661401]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
The Constitution provides a reason for the weapons as well.
[/quote]
Oh yeah?  And can you explain to me what the significance is of the knife, please?
[/quote]
For these religious peoples to protect themselves when being attacked.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147605#msg147605 date=1141516646]
[quote author=Joe link=topic=14412.msg147602#msg147602 date=1141511050]
CrAz3D, I hope you realize you blew that TOTALLY out of porportion. We have kids carrying hammers (real metal hammers, not just toys) around our school for no reason whatsoever, and they don't get in trouble. Why? Because they don't use them.
[/quote]
By the same logic I could carry a 9mm into class & be ok because I don't use it.
I'd LOVE to carry a 9mm to class, but I can't buy one til I'm 23? I think.  That's dumb, its not like I'm going to kill anyone with it.

Would you, personally, feel safe if you knew every gang member in your school carried a gun to class?
[/quote]

No. I wouldn't. If I knew every person of the Sikh religion (what, 1 in 10,000 in America?) carred a dagger, I'd feel save. I haven't had any self defence training, and I've disarmed my brother countless times (he pulls his knifes on me, what a moron).

A gun is around 100 times as dangerous as a knife. You can run, and even try to dodge, and still potentially get killed. To survive a knife attack all you have to do is dodge and then deliver a kick to the nuts (male), boobs (women, I don't know why, but they're violent too!), head, or stomach.

Also, I have to agree with Topaz's point. A gangster is much more likely to shoot you than a religious person is to stab you.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147771#msg147771 date=1141692584]
[quote author=iago link=topic=14412.msg147728#msg147728 date=1141661401]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14412.msg147722#msg147722 date=1141658478]
The Constitution provides a reason for the weapons as well.
[/quote]
Oh yeah?  And can you explain to me what the significance is of the knife, please?
[/quote]
For these religious peoples to protect themselves when being attacked.
[/quote]
What's your source on that?  Or did you just make it up?

That's like saying that the reason Christians worship the crucifix is because you can hit people with it (or launch grenades from it in rare cases). 

Or, if it's made out of a shotgun and a baseball bat, use it to kill vampires :D

[quote]Orthodox Sikhs have been required to carry kirpans since the 1600s. Some say the original purpose was for defense but many insist it is not a weapon.[/quote]