This is something that has long ailed me and I'd like to know what you think or can find.

[u]Here are some resources against recycling:[/u]
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=12816
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/54440
http://www.rightwingnews.com/reader/utterwaster.php

[u]
A few sites for it:[/u]
http://www.grinningplanet.com/2004/10-05/recycler-recycling-article.htm
http://www.bookrags.com/researchtopics/pollution/05.html


Please back up all and any of your statements with evidence. I'd like to see a debate on whether recycling is either effective or not effective.

I think it is good to recycle somethings.

We recycle aluminum.  Other than retreating it (or w/e) I can see reusing aluminum as being much easier than harvesting new aluminum from the earth.
I spose the same could be said for whatever other metals are recyclable.

I read once that recycling paper is a waste.  It uses more chemicals and is worse from the environment than making new paper.  Apparently, the trees for new paper are grown in farms, not cut down in the wilderness, so it's cheap and replenishable. 

Additionally, glass isn't recycled.  At least, not where I live.  It's separated from the other recyclables and thrown into a pile in the dump.  After talking to the recycling guy about that, I stopped recycling glass. 

I've also heard that almost everything else (except for aluminum) is more expensive to recycle, and in most cases it doesn't help the environment much. 

Finally, and I don't know if this is true, but apparently, the only study ever done on how beneficial recycling is was done by the owner of a recycling company.  There have allegedly been no real studies done on the benefits of recycling. 

I don't have any sources on any of that, that, though, it was a long time ago.  But give the idea that recycling isn't as great as it's cracked up to be a chance.  It's worth thinking about. 

Why not recycle the metal into an army of robots that kill people who liter? That'd be good for the enviroment!  ;D

Iago, you didn't mention plastic at all. Plastic is the bulk of what I recycle, some glass and cans too but mostly plastic.

[quote author=iago link=topic=14275.msg146166#msg146166 date=1140049462]
I read once that recycling paper is a waste.  It uses more chemicals and is worse from the environment than making new paper.  Apparently, the trees for new paper are grown in farms, not cut down in the wilderness, so it's cheap and replenishable. 

Additionally, glass isn't recycled.  At least, not where I live.  It's separated from the other recyclables and thrown into a pile in the dump.  After talking to the recycling guy about that, I stopped recycling glass. 

I've also heard that almost everything else (except for aluminum) is more expensive to recycle, and in most cases it doesn't help the environment much. 

Finally, and I don't know if this is true, but apparently, the only study ever done on how beneficial recycling is was done by the owner of a recycling company.  There have allegedly been no real studies done on the benefits of recycling. 

I don't have any sources on any of that, that, though, it was a long time ago.  But give the idea that recycling isn't as great as it's cracked up to be a chance.  It's worth thinking about. 

[/quote]

Are you saying recycling is a waste of time and money then? There has to be advantages, we all can't simply be so ignorant to spend this money just for the sake of it.

Even if paper has little to no benefit, metal is almost definitly better recycled then mining new ore. Plastic I would think would definitly have to be worth it. Glass I was under the impression was recycled, I'm not sure if it is though, or to what benefit.

I can see paper being pointless to recycle, metal being very benefitial to recycle, and I have no idea about plastic.

[quote author=Hostile link=topic=14275.msg146176#msg146176 date=1140055726]
iago, you didn't mention plastic at all. Plastic is the bulk of what I recycle, some glass and cans too but mostly plastic.
[/quote]
I'm not sure about plastic, that's why I tip-toed around it. 

[quote author=Networks link=topic=14275.msg146177#msg146177 date=1140056280]
Are you saying recycling is a waste of time and money then? There has to be advantages, we all can't simply be so ignorant to spend this money just for the sake of it.
[/quote]
Well, what I'm saying might sound like a conspiracy theory.  Person A discovered a market for himself.  He does studies, which "prove" that his service is required.  So he starts making a lot of noise about it, and eventually everybody in the country is using his service, and the government is paying him a ton of money for it.  Is it possible?  Yes.  Is it actually happening?  I have no evidence of it.  Just keep an open mind.  :)

There is no one person reaping all the benefits of recycling, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.  There's a difference between keeping an open mind and believing every damn thing you hear.

[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=14275.msg146221#msg146221 date=1140117555]
There is no one person reaping all the benefits of recycling, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.  There's a difference between keeping an open mind and believing every damn thing you hear.
[/quote]

There is obviously some company who does the majority of recycling, and they're funded by the government.  Obviously, the person who owns it is profitting.  I don't see how that fact can be debated..

Recycling is a good idea even if implemented wrongly or poorly. (not saying it is though, and not saying its not).  If we define recycling as a process that reduces waste, and reduces negative manufacturing affects on the environment, but taking disposable consumer products and transforming them for further uses.

Suggestion:  If we can agree recycling is theoretically a good idea, perhaps we should discover how to make it good and implement that in law.  By that I mean, if we discover certain plastics recycling is optimal, we could legislate that many consumer products be packaged in those plastics when possible.  This would enable recycling to truely make sense for both consumer and environment.

One of my largest clients is a privately owned recycling company.  There is a lot of profit being made in that industry regardless of whether or not private citizens recycle their waste or not.  They have plants scattered all over the south and they generally deal in large volumes of materials.  I mean large as in train loads, not a plastic bag full of your empty beer cans. For example, they have a contract with Texas Motor Speedway.  After every event they take all of the waste from the track, sort it out, and sell it on the market.  Recycled materials are treated as a commodity and bought and sold in bulk.  I can't comment on whether or not recycling is good for the environment, but I do know that recycling provides jobs for people and gives me a nice size network to manage.

So it seems that recycling is not ineffective but has the potential to be very costy and from a economic stand point is either worth while or worthless.

I wasn't sure if recycling was actually working or was really effective as a means to preserve materials that will one day become scarce, if not already, on the planet.
I 've heard something about how decomposing materials takes an extremely long amount of time however I've found no evidence that leads to such a conclusion. I'd like to hear from someone that thinks recycling is itself a waste. Is recycling really worthwhile or are we fine now and in the hopeful future?

Glass is recycled here; bottles are washed and reused; others are smelted and reused, though mixing of colored glass and clear glass creates problems and eventually they become isolators or filler for constructions or some other lower level product.

Trees for paper definitely do not grow in farms here. But we do export a lot of paper. And recycled paper is used plentifully, especially where completely white perfect paper isn't needed - print paper might have 5-20% recycled fibres while cardboard may consist of 85% recycled fibres.

Recycling aluminium is very advantageous because of the high power use when extracting aluminium from ore.

Then there is recycling electronics, where companies make a profit selling extracted metals.


And obviously there are different reasons for recycling different things. We are not running out of glass, but we don't want crushed glass spread around outdoors. Solution to that - make sure people return them.

Plus, mixing glass and similar substances with the rest of the garbage reduces the efficiency of the incinerators heating the city; only things that burn should be dumped into the regular garbage cans here.

[quote author=Adron link=topic=14275.msg146231#msg146231 date=1140127661]
And obviously there are different reasons for recycling different things. We are not running out of glass, but we don't want crushed glass spread around outdoors. Solution to that - make sure people return them.
[/quote]
About 4-5 years ago here in Las Cruces we got our first private hospital, its quite nice, its also built ontop of an old dump.  You can look out the windows of the hospital & see glass shining on hills around that area, its quite amusing and sorta disturbing because you don't know what else is there.

[quote author=Thing [vL] link=topic=14275.msg146229#msg146229 date=1140125019]
One of my largest clients is a privately owned recycling company.  There is a lot of profit being made in that industry regardless of whether or not private citizens recycle their waste or not.  They have plants scattered all over the south and they generally deal in large volumes of materials.  I mean large as in train loads, not a plastic bag full of your empty beer cans. For example, they have a contract with Texas Motor Speedway.  After every event they take all of the waste from the track, sort it out, and sell it on the market.  Recycled materials are treated as a commodity and bought and sold in bulk.  I can't comment on whether or not recycling is good for the environment, but I do know that recycling provides jobs for people and gives me a nice size network to manage.
[/quote]
Wait a minute; I'm giving them my recyclables for free every week, and they're selling them?  I think I see a problem here...


[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146234#msg146234 date=1140129237]
About 4-5 years ago here in Las Cruces we got our first private hospital, its quite nice, its also built ontop of an old dump.  You can look out the windows of the hospital & see glass shining on hills around that area, its quite amusing and sorta disturbing because you don't know what else is there.
[/quote]
Sounds unsanitary :P.  We have quite a few buried dumps, and they're all in great shape.  You'd never know there was a dump there, it's just a hill with grass and trees. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=14275.msg146292#msg146292 date=1140195531]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146234#msg146234 date=1140129237]
About 4-5 years ago here in Las Cruces we got our first private hospital, its quite nice, its also built ontop of an old dump.  You can look out the windows of the hospital & see glass shining on hills around that area, its quite amusing and sorta disturbing because you don't know what else is there.
[/quote]
Sounds unsanitary :P.  We have quite a few buried dumps, and they're all in great shape.  You'd never know there was a dump there, it's just a hill with grass and trees. 
[/quote]
Slowly dirt is blowing over it & mesquite/other desert bushes are growing over it...but its still sort of uneasing to think about

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146297#msg146297 date=1140202190]
[quote author=iago link=topic=14275.msg146292#msg146292 date=1140195531]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146234#msg146234 date=1140129237]
About 4-5 years ago here in Las Cruces we got our first private hospital, its quite nice, its also built ontop of an old dump.  You can look out the windows of the hospital & see glass shining on hills around that area, its quite amusing and sorta disturbing because you don't know what else is there.
[/quote]
Sounds unsanitary :P.  We have quite a few buried dumps, and they're all in great shape.  You'd never know there was a dump there, it's just a hill with grass and trees. 
[/quote]
Slowly dirt is blowing over it & mesquite/other desert bushes are growing over it...but its still sort of uneasing to think about
[/quote]
Don't they cover it with dirt, lay sod, and plant stuff there?  That's what they do here, and it stays covered.  There's actually one that's kind of near my house, it's a park now.  People play on the hills and stuff. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=14275.msg146302#msg146302 date=1140207451]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146297#msg146297 date=1140202190]
[quote author=iago link=topic=14275.msg146292#msg146292 date=1140195531]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146234#msg146234 date=1140129237]
About 4-5 years ago here in Las Cruces we got our first private hospital, its quite nice, its also built ontop of an old dump.  You can look out the windows of the hospital & see glass shining on hills around that area, its quite amusing and sorta disturbing because you don't know what else is there.
[/quote]
Sounds unsanitary :P.  We have quite a few buried dumps, and they're all in great shape.  You'd never know there was a dump there, it's just a hill with grass and trees. 
[/quote]
Slowly dirt is blowing over it & mesquite/other desert bushes are growing over it...but its still sort of uneasing to think about
[/quote]
Don't they cover it with dirt, lay sod, and plant stuff there?  That's what they do here, and it stays covered.  There's actually one that's kind of near my house, it's a park now.  People play on the hills and stuff. 
[/quote]
If we lived in a place with an abundance of water, maybe, we live in a place of drought.
It rained REALLY hard one night last fall & washed away alot of that hill that natural vegetation was growing back in on.  After 'fixing' the hill they put a few more bushes, that's all they can really do without wasting lots of water on it.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146307#msg146307 date=1140211865]
If we lived in a place with an abundance of water, maybe, we live in a place of drought.
It rained REALLY hard one night last fall & washed away alot of that hill that natural vegetation was growing back in on.  After 'fixing' the hill they put a few more bushes, that's all they can really do without wasting lots of water on it.
[/quote]
Hmm, yeah, environment would have a lot to do with it.  Where I live, we get a lot of rain, some periods of dryness, a lot of snow, and a lot of freezing/thawing.  It's hell on our roads and cars, but at least it's easy to grow grass/trees. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=14275.msg146315#msg146315 date=1140213782]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14275.msg146307#msg146307 date=1140211865]
If we lived in a place with an abundance of water, maybe, we live in a place of drought.
It rained REALLY hard one night last fall & washed away alot of that hill that natural vegetation was growing back in on.  After 'fixing' the hill they put a few more bushes, that's all they can really do without wasting lots of water on it.
[/quote]
Hmm, yeah, environment would have a lot to do with it.  Where I live, we get a lot of rain, some periods of dryness, a lot of snow, and a lot of freezing/thawing.  It's hell on our roads and cars, but at least it's easy to grow grass/trees. 
[/quote]
We have trees & bushes & grass, its all desert stuff though so it takes FO EVA to grow but is quite resilient