...if you don't think anything good is happening there


[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image001.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image002.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image003.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image004.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image005.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image006.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image007.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image008.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image009.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image010.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image011.jpg[/img]

And where's the pictures of the people whose family's the US has destroyed?  Or is this just propoganda, not facts?

[img]http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/december/ogrish-dot-com-iraqi_war_victim_autumn_2005.jpg[/img]
There you go.

[quote author=Meh link=topic=14118.msg144411#msg144411 date=1138985782]
[img]http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/december/ogrish-dot-com-iraqi_war_victim_autumn_2005.jpg[/img]
There you go.
[/quote]

I don't think they allow off-site linking.  But the image is:
http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/december/ogrish-dot-com-iraqi_war_victim_autumn_2005.jpg

There's a lot of dead Iraqis on that site, actually.

Those are great pictures... Lib-Media just shows Iraqi people crying tears of sadness and periodic clips of US Troops dying from IED... its pathetic.

[quote author=iago link=topic=14118.msg144412#msg144412 date=1138986279]
[quote author=Meh link=topic=14118.msg144411#msg144411 date=1138985782]
[img]http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/december/ogrish-dot-com-iraqi_war_victim_autumn_2005.jpg[/img]
There you go.
[/quote]

I don't think they allow off-site linking.  But the image is:
http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/december/ogrish-dot-com-iraqi_war_victim_autumn_2005.jpg

There's a lot of dead Iraqis on that site, actually.
[/quote] I love getting my news from sites with porn links all over them.

Who is the guy that was blown up?
Was he in the Iraqi pre-new government?
Was he a terrorists?
Was he a civilian?
Was he a civilian killed by a terrorist?
Was he a civilian filled by US forces?
Was he a civilian killed by US forces because he posed a threat?
Was he a civilian purposely killed by US forces out of cold bold?

Unfortunately, people like Iago would rather see people dying and unhappy in order to satisfy their own personal agenda.  People actually being happy about the U.S. freeing them from Saddam doesn't go with their dogma.

Here's a news flash:  It's a war.  Certainly, people are going to die, families will be torn apart.  But the larger  picture is what is important.

For those people who think the US should leave, it will just refeed the area with extremists and other terrorists.  By the US presense in terrorist hotspots its preventing the terrorists from sitting down more relaxed and planning attacks on foreign soil.  They instead are concentrating on their survival and planning on attacking US & allies on their own soil which is a lot better then them going on foreign soil including the US and attacking there.
On a final note.. Remember US military is all volunteer, nobody is forced to join....  So if your going to be a pussy and your called to Duty and while your there you say shit like you wish you were home and this war is stupid don't bother joining.  Also if you are in the military and you feel that way you could always just get discharged....

-Soon to be 2LT in United States Army (3 more years :) )

[quote author=MysT_DooM link=topic=14118.msg144429#msg144429 date=1138993727]

On a final note.. Remember US military is all volunteer, nobody is forced to join
[/quote]Tell that to communist support Cindy Sheehan

The 8th picture is not from Iraq.

That is Dr Daniel Jackson from SG-1.

Possible, but it doesn't really look like it.
The guy in the picture here has a more define jaw bone than pictures I just saw of "Dr. Daniel Jackson".
Nor do the noses look the same.

The two guys DO look similar, however.

Without his makeup?

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144445#msg144445 date=1139002658]
Without his makeup?
[/quote]
A new jaw bone, eyebrow color, & nose is all covered in makeup?
Hard to believe.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144441#msg144441 date=1139002156]
The 8th picture is not from Iraq.

That is Dr Daniel Jackson from SG-1.
[/quote]

That character does not where a wedding ring.  The man in the picture does.

hmm, looks like issue is resolved, a real solider in Iraq.

Anything else anyone wants to refute?

[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image006.jpg[/img]

Haha that made me laugh. Big ol gun with a kitty.

[quote author=Warrior link=topic=14118.msg144455#msg144455 date=1139005096]
[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/jjtrevino/image006.jpg[/img]

Haha that made me laugh. Big ol gun with a kitty.

[/quote]heh, word.  Not expected really

God this U.S. propaganda at its best.

[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144459#msg144459 date=1139008390]
God this U.S. propaganda at its best.
[/quote]How so?
I link to pictures & its automatically propaganda?

Remeber kids:  It's no coincidence that "happy" rhymes with "Iraqi"

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=14118.msg144460#msg144460 date=1139008571]
[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144459#msg144459 date=1139008390]
God this U.S. propaganda at its best.
[/quote]How so?
I link to pictures & its automatically propaganda?
[/quote]
I suppose it is, but propaganda has such a negative meaning behind the word these days.
They're just pictures from Iraq.

[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144459#msg144459 date=1139008390]
God this U.S. propaganda at its best.
[/quote]

Really? I've seen plenty of propaganda on the effect we've had on Iraqi civilians (gory, generally), and I think it's time for a change.

[me=Topaz]hugs DM[/me]

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=14118.msg144464#msg144464 date=1139008875]
[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144459#msg144459 date=1139008390]
God this U.S. propaganda at its best.
[/quote]

Really? I've seen plenty of propaganda on the effect we've had on Iraqi civilians (gory, generally), and I think it's time for a change.

[me=Topaz]hugs DM[/me]
[/quote]

I don't think any propaganda is necessary just cold hard facts are good for me. What does a solider petting a kitten have to do with anything? Looks like propaganda to me (especially that picture). Symbolizes our "compassion."

Today in my govt class we were discussing the real reputation of America and many ignorant people don't realize it's not a good one. Wake up and develop a taste for the world.

[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144478#msg144478 date=1139010583]
[quote author=Topaz link=topic=14118.msg144464#msg144464 date=1139008875]
[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144459#msg144459 date=1139008390]
God this U.S. propaganda at its best.
[/quote]

Really? I've seen plenty of propaganda on the effect we've had on Iraqi civilians (gory, generally), and I think it's time for a change.

[me=Topaz]hugs DM[/me]
[/quote]

I don't think any propaganda is necessary just cold hard facts are good for me. What does a solider petting a kitten have to do with anything? Looks like propaganda to me (especially that picture). Symbolizes our "compassion."

Today in my govt class we were discussing the real reputation of America and many ignorant people don't realize it's not a good one. Wake up and develop a taste for the world.
[/quote]
1) The pictures are fact...did that man not pet the kitty?
2) The soldier shows that American forces aren't "there to destroy everything"
3) The picture of the dead Iraqi is propaganda (probably more so than the pictures I posted as there is no story as to why he is dead or who he was)
4) Our reputation isn't that greaet, no.  Probably because we want something & we take it.  We also have a tendency to get involved in situations where other countries are way fucked up so we can stop them & eventually spend billions of dollars rebuilding/building their country

We do indeed have a poor reputation, but not (solely) because of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. We give billions of dollars in foreign aid, and many more from civilians, but does anyone recognize that? No, because people have the tendancy to emphasize our flaws and faults, or just because they want a reason to hate the only superpower.

Fuck foreign aid. Sought our own countrys out. I dont want to donate money to oxfam and have it sent to Iraq or India or somewhere. I wnat my money to go to this country or Use I could benefit from such as Cance Research UK.

[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144478#msg144478 date=1139010583]
Today in my govt class we were discussing the real reputation of America and many ignorant people don't realize it's not a good one. Wake up and develop a taste for the world.
[/quote]

Please provide facts and evidence that half of the world hates us and hates what we're doing to Iraq.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=14118.msg144497#msg144497 date=1139014915]
[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144478#msg144478 date=1139010583]
Today in my govt class we were discussing the real reputation of America and many ignorant people don't realize it's not a good one. Wake up and develop a taste for the world.
[/quote]

Please provide facts and evidence that half of the world hates us and hates what we're doing to Iraq.
[/quote]

lol

I hate America for how they "forced" Britain into war. I hate your goverment but not America all in all.

[quote author=Meh link=topic=14118.msg144495#msg144495 date=1139013354]
Fuck foreign aid. Sought our own countrys out. I dont want to donate money to oxfam and have it sent to Iraq or India or somewhere. I wnat my money to go to this country or Use I could benefit from such as Cance Research UK.
[/quote]I bet we'd look worse if we stopped helping.

I don't think it's propaganda, but I do think it's not a very realistic portrayal of the situation in Iraq.

I've never thought that our presence in Iraq is a Wholly Bad Thing(tm), I just think that it'll do more harm than good in the long run. I also think that the lies and/or incompetence upon which the case for war was made is inexcusable.

Listen to yourselves for god's sake.

"Soldiers and happy Iraqi's are right-wing propoganda."

"Dead people and unhappy Iraqi's are left-wing propoganda."

Here's an idea:

NONE OF IT IS FUCKING PROPOGANDA.  IT'S ALL FUCKING REAL.  IT'S A WAR, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FUCKING DIE.  MOST PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE FUCKING GOING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT US OUSTING SADDAM.  IF YOU THINK THEY'RE NOT, YOU'RE FUCKING INSANE.  PERIOD.

Showing pictures of happy Iraqi's and friendly soldiers isn't going to convince the left-wingers that their idea of American soldiers being evil, programmed killing machines terrorizing the innocent Iraqi civilians on a daily basis at the whim of their "tyrant" commander is wrong.

Showing pictures of dead insurgents and unfortunate dead civilians (collateral damage, which sucks, but it happens in war) isn't going to convince the right-wingers to have mercy and pull out of Iraq before we "spark World War 3"

Grow up for god's sake.

And also, the reason for moving in was not based on lies IMO.  We didn't find WMD, that's true, but we did find the facilities and means for creating them in several places, and evidence that Saddam moved his WMD to Syria (which is easily feasible and could've been done relatively quickly) in order to fool the inspectors before he knew that we were going to hit him with an all out assault is piling up.

[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=14118.msg144596#msg144596 date=1139076464]
NONE OF IT IS FUCKING PROPOGANDA.  IT'S ALL FUCKING REAL.  IT'S A WAR, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FUCKING DIE.  MOST PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE FUCKING GOING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT US OUSTING SADDAM.  IF YOU THINK THEY'RE NOT, YOU'RE FUCKING INSANE.  PERIOD.
[/quote]

I agree.


[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=14118.msg144597#msg144597 date=1139076614]
And also, the reason for moving in was not based on lies IMO.  We didn't find WMD, that's true, but we did find the facilities and means for creating them in several places, and evidence that Saddam moved his WMD to Syria (which is easily feasible and could've been done relatively quickly) in order to fool the inspectors before he knew that we were going to hit him with an all out assault is piling up.
[/quote]

Source?

lets recall his ease of moving al sammoud II missiles for a long ass time. Not to mention we never found a scud but we know he had them obviously because he popped three off when we were inserting ourselves into the south end of his country.

<offtopic> How was it not obvious my post about Daniel Jackson of SG-1 was a joke? </offtopic>

The OP posts a few snapshots to point out that good things happen in Iraq as a result of the USA presence.  Totally agree, but it's an argument void of worth.

I can find 9 things to phtograph as "good things that came out of" - the Charles Manson clan, the Jonestown(?) suicides, the Ted Bundy Chi Omega rape and murders, the Oklahoma City bombing, Hitler invading Poland, and the US atomic bombings of Japan.  Would the photograph as justification to the crime?  I think any reasonable person would say 'no', but I am open to enlightenment.

The crux of the opposition argument to the war is simple, and I have yet to see any supporter address it directly.  We attacked Iraq based on what we thought was a reliable and factual report of their WMD technological development, and the facts turned out to be wrong.

There's a lot of -
"we thought at the time"
"Iraq is better without Saddam"
"good things come out of the US invasion/occupation of Iraq"
"the world is a safer place without Saddam"
"America is a safer place"

..and many more hindsight justifications to the invasion.  But we WERE wrong and did attack a country for the wrong reasons.  The world would have far more respect for us if we would stand up, admit our mistake, apologize for it, and face our mistake and get the hell out of Iraq or make it a US territory.

(more on the "make it a US territory" later today in a new topic)

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144816#msg144816 date=1139239579]
I can find 9 things to phtograph as "good things that came out of" - the Charles Manson clan, the Jonestown(?) suicides, the Ted Bundy Chi Omega rape and murders, the Oklahoma City bombing, Hitler invading Poland, and the US atomic bombings of Japan.  Would the photograph as justification to the crime?  I think any reasonable person would say 'no', but I am open to enlightenment.
[/quote]
I don't know, I think the US atomic bombings were probably justified.  It's really hard to say; I'm certainly glad I did not have to pull the trigger.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144816#msg144816 date=1139239579]
But we WERE wrong and did attack a country for the wrong reasons. 
[/quote]
What were the wrong reasons?  Are there right reasons?

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144816#msg144816 date=1139239579]
The world would have far more respect for us if we would stand up, admit our mistake, apologize for it, and face our mistake and get the hell out of Iraq or make it a US territory.
[/quote]
I patently disagree with you on this point.  No matter what the US does I cannot see the world having any measure of "respect" (as you mean it) that they have now.  The world of course respects the fact that we could wipe a country off the face of the world at will.  But they also respect the fact that we would never do so, and so they can feel much more at liberty to hate us.  We are the world's hegemon, the sole hyperpower, and no matter what happens, they will hate us.  (I thought you were libertarian.  Don't you believe in the anarchical international system -> balance of power theories?)

Since you are so much in disagreement with me, are you intending to say that if one can find 9 photographs of good things from any action, then that action has been supported as a good thing itself?  That was the intent of the OP, IMHO.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=14118.msg144497#msg144497 date=1139014915]
[quote author=Networks link=topic=14118.msg144478#msg144478 date=1139010583]
Today in my govt class we were discussing the real reputation of America and many ignorant people don't realize it's not a good one. Wake up and develop a taste for the world.
[/quote]

Please provide facts and evidence that half of the world hates us and hates what we're doing to Iraq.
[/quote]

I never gave a proportinate number Newby, in any event we found a poll that linked words such as "rude" to America and many found it to be true. It's simply ignorant to think that the whole world likes you and what you're doing is always the right thing. Real evidence is who our allies are in this Iraqi conflict. Hate is a strong word, it's more or less dislike not HATE.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144816#msg144816 date=1139239579]
<offtopic> How was it not obvious my post about Daniel Jackson of SG-1 was a joke? </offtopic>
[/quote]
I don't know, they looked quite similar so I assumed you were serious, you always seem to counter most things.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144816#msg144816 date=1139239579]
The OP posts a few snapshots to point out that good things happen in Iraq as a result of the USA presence.  Totally agree, but it's an argument void of worth.
[/quote]
You could say the same about any 'bad' photos taken then, too.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144816#msg144816 date=1139239579]
I can find 9 things to phtograph as "good things that came out of" - the Charles Manson clan, the Jonestown(?) suicides, the Ted Bundy Chi Omega rape and murders, the Oklahoma City bombing, Hitler invading Poland, and the US atomic bombings of Japan.  Would the photograph as justification to the crime?  I think any reasonable person would say 'no', but I am open to enlightenment.
[/quote]
You say you can find 9 photos showing a level of human compassion in those events?


[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144816#msg144816 date=1139239579]
The crux of the opposition argument to the war is simple, and I have yet to see any supporter address it directly.  We attacked Iraq based on what we thought was a reliable and factual report of their WMD technological development, and the facts turned out to be wrong.

There's a lot of -
"we thought at the time"
"Iraq is better without Saddam"
"good things come out of the US invasion/occupation of Iraq"
"the world is a safer place without Saddam"
"America is a safer place"

..and many more hindsight justifications to the invasion.  But we WERE wrong and did attack a country for the wrong reasons.  The world would have far more respect for us if we would stand up, admit our mistake, apologize for it, and face our mistake and get the hell out of Iraq or make it a US territory.

(more on the "make it a US territory" later today in a new topic)
[/quote]
As you memntioned, hindsight.
That means it is done & over with....we're there, we can't leave, drop it.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=14118.msg144833#msg144833 date=1139253219]
Since you are so much in disagreement with me, are you intending to say that if one can find 9 photographs of good things from any action, then that action has been supported as a good thing itself?  That was the intent of the OP, IMHO.
[/quote]
The original post was just meant to show that it isn't just America destroying everything over there, that there is still human compassion and good coming from it all.