[quote author=Nagin]"It's time for us to rebuild a New Orleans, the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," Mr Nagin said. "This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way."[/quote]

[quote author=Nagin]"Surely God is mad at America," Mr Nagin, himself black, said at a ceremony to mark Martin Luther King Day. "He sent us hurricane after hurricane after hurricane and it's destroyed and put stress on this country. Surely He's not approving of us being in Iraq under false pretences. But surely He's upset at black America also. We're not taking care of ourselves, we're not taking care of our women, and we're not taking care of our children.

"What are we doing? Why is black-on-black crime such an issue? Why do our young men hate each other so much that they look their brother in the face and they will take a gun and kill him in cold blood?"[/quote]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/18/wnagin18.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/01/18/ixportal.html

MK, WTF.


I wish all federal agencies would just pull out now.

Liberal people are into the welfare of the people of our country, "do whats best for the masses"...if they really believed that NO money would go to that idiotically built hole of death & we would just dig it all out & let the ocean come in.

God is punishing them cause they were stupid enough to live below sealevel on the coast, seriously, who does that!?

I don't understand.

"I have a dream... that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Why do people in positions of leadership, particularly black people, even focus on the difference between black and white people?  I swear if they'd just shut up about it, maybe one day everyone would forget about it.  It's certainly not happening now.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142305#msg142305 date=1137602159]

Liberal people are into the welfare of the people of our country, "do whats best for the masses"...if they really believed that NO money would go to that idiotically built hole of death & we would just dig it all out & let the ocean come in.

God is punishing them cause they were stupid enough to live below sealevel on the coast, seriously, who does that!?
[/quote]
Just saying 'Fuck it' to New Orleans was my suggestion as well, unfortunatlly the powers that be don't think like I do.  They want votes...

The level of stupidity it takes to move back to NO after this amazes me, it is kind of like those people that live in the Keys and kit hit by hurricane after hurricane every year...

[quote author=Forged link=topic=13949.msg142317#msg142317 date=1137606572]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142305#msg142305 date=1137602159]

Liberal people are into the welfare of the people of our country, "do whats best for the masses"...if they really believed that NO money would go to that idiotically built hole of death & we would just dig it all out & let the ocean come in.

God is punishing them cause they were stupid enough to live below sealevel on the coast, seriously, who does that!?
[/quote]
Just saying 'Fuck it' to New Orleans was my suggestion as well, unfortunatlly the powers that be don't think like I do.  They want votes...

The level of stupidity it takes to move back to NO after this amazes me, it is kind of like those people that live in the Keys and kit hit by hurricane after hurricane every year...
[/quote]They're rich though, somewhat I assume.
NO is full of ignorant poor people who should move to Arizona where nothing happens but heat.

[quote author=MyndFyre link=topic=13949.msg142308#msg142308 date=1137603675]
I don't understand.

"I have a dream... that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Why do people in positions of leadership, particularly black people, even focus on the difference between black and white people?  I swear if they'd just shut up about it, maybe one day everyone would forget about it.  It's certainly not happening now.
[/quote]

Quoted for truth. It seems logical that as we try to put racism behind us, race should become less of an issue, instead of a key point.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142305#msg142305 date=1137602159]
....that idiotically built hole of death & we would just dig it all out & let the ocean come in.

God is punishing them cause they were stupid enough to live below sealevel on the coast, seriously, who does that!?
[/quote]

You're absolutely right, they should all move to a smart place, like LA.  That way, instead of being on a flood plain, they'll be on a fault line. 

I wonder how quickly they will respond when a Richter 9-10 earthquake dumps LA into the Pacific...

It's funny. The only ones still dragging on about racism are black people, mostly.

[quote author=iago link=topic=13949.msg142330#msg142330 date=1137610007]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142305#msg142305 date=1137602159]
....that idiotically built hole of death & we would just dig it all out & let the ocean come in.

God is punishing them cause they were stupid enough to live below sealevel on the coast, seriously, who does that!?
[/quote]

You're absolutely right, they should all move to a smart place, like LA.  That way, instead of being on a flood plain, they'll be on a fault line. 

I wonder how quickly they will respond when a Richter 9-10 earthquake dumps LA into the Pacific...
[/quote]I'd cheer if alot of California fell off, although we'd lose a HUGE part of our economy:(

[quote author=Joe link=topic=13949.msg142335#msg142335 date=1137610842]
It's funny. The only ones still dragging on about racism are black people, mostly.
[/quote]

QFT, isn't it annoying?

I'm sick of all these effing things like that. Black people are uber racist.

Like today, my friend I went to sports authority and on the way back we were at a stop light and we had Mike Jones on loud and the windows down and I had my seat back and I had my elbow out the back window right? Because we're gangsta and all. Well anyway these two black guys pull up beside us in a UHAUL truck or something and just look at us. Then we laugh hysterically. Then when the light turned green and we started rolling (they went straight we went on the on-ramp to interstate) they honked their horn at us.

They probably didn't like that we were listening to "their" music at "their" volume and had our seats reclined to "their" driving position.

That kind of assumption is the most prevalent and insidious form of racism, one which everyone is guilty of, to a degree. Perhaps they were honking their horn to express approval?

hmm.

The honking thing could just be them thinking you're  stupid like I do @ anyone that listens to crap @ high volumes.



Arta, were you refering to trust's honking thing specifically or also to Joe's thing about black people dragging out racism?

Trust's honking thing.

Joe's comment I found rather strange. Isn't it to be expected that victims of racism will be vocal about it?

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142542#msg142542 date=1137752779]
Joe's comment I found rather strange. Isn't it to be expected that victims of racism will be vocal about it?
[/quote]

No. If you're white I mean.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142542#msg142542 date=1137752779]
Joe's comment I found rather strange. Isn't it to be expected that victims of racism will be vocal about it?
[/quote]

Yes, however, when they go as far as to blame everyone and everything for their misfortunes, and continue to do so when we are trying to help them...

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142542#msg142542 date=1137752779]
Trust's honking thing.

Joe's comment I found rather strange. Isn't it to be expected that victims of racism will be vocal about it?
[/quote]Yeah, if they WERE victims of racism.

I think as Joe said, most of the racism today comes from the other side

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=13949.msg142543#msg142543 date=1137755979]
No. If you're white I mean.
[/quote]

If I felt someone was being racist to me, I'd say so (White/male here, fyi).


[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142545#msg142545 date=1137765641]
Yes, however, when they go as far as to blame everyone and everything for their misfortunes, and continue to do so when we are trying to help them...
[/quote]

Do 'they' now? All of 'them'? See what I mean? Perhaps what you mean to say is that poor people in NO feel like the government let them down? Perhaps the government did?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142546#msg142546 date=1137769782]
Yeah, if they WERE victims of racism.

I think as Joe said, most of the racism today comes from the other side
[/quote]

I think most rational people will be perfectly receptive to that argument, but you have to be able to back it up. Spurious allegations of racism are a fast way to end up being discredited.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142552#msg142552 date=1137781705]
I think most rational people will be perfectly receptive to that argument, but you have to be able to back it up. Spurious allegations of racism are a fast way to end up being discredited.
[/quote]
Yes, but it isnt tradition lynching racism.
"Chocolate covered New Orleans" is racism.
Black people calling black people nigger is racism.
Affirmative action is racism

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142552#msg142552 date=1137781705]
[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142545#msg142545 date=1137765641]
Yes, however, when they go as far as to blame everyone and everything for their misfortunes, and continue to do so when we are trying to help them...
[/quote]

Do 'they' now? All of 'them'? See what I mean? Perhaps what you mean to say is that poor people in NO feel like the government let them down? Perhaps the government did?
[/quote]

You know I was referring to "victims of racism" when I said them and they. Don't try and say I'm being racist. You sound like you're a victim of racism in doing so.

How can the government let them down?

I mean, if you overlook the fact that the mostly-human (may be a martian or two in there, you never know) based government can't stop the hurricane from hitting, and offered them rides out of NO, the government did let them down.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142555#msg142555 date=1137783441]
Yes, but it isnt tradition lynching racism.
[/quote]

Yes, of course.


[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142555#msg142555 date=1137783441]
"Chocolate covered New Orleans" is racism.
[/quote]

Probably


[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142555#msg142555 date=1137783441]
Black people calling black people nigger is racism.
[/quote]

Probably not.


[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142555#msg142555 date=1137783441]
Affirmative action is racism
[/quote]

Perhaps - an interesting topic. Certainly worthy of a new thread.


[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142567#msg142567 date=1137797331]
You know I was referring to "victims of racism" when I said them and they.
[/quote]

I honestly didn't.


[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142567#msg142567 date=1137797331]
How can the government let them down?
[/quote]

By taking excessively long to help people in need.


[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142567#msg142567 date=1137797331]
I mean, if you overlook the fact that the mostly-human (may be a martian or two in there, you never know) based government can't stop the hurricane from hitting, and offered them rides out of NO, the government did let them down.
[/quote]

The aftermath of the hurricane is what's relevant: the emergency response.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142577#msg142577 date=1137805000]
[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142567#msg142567 date=1137797331]
You know I was referring to "victims of racism" when I said them and they.
[/quote]

I honestly didn't.
[/quote]

Sad.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142577#msg142577 date=1137805000]
[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142567#msg142567 date=1137797331]
How can the government let them down?
[/quote]

By taking excessively long to help people in need.
[/quote]

Oh yeah I forgot, if you offer to help someone and they turn it down, you should automatically help them after. That's how the world works!

If someone asks me for help and I don't get it, and I ask them for help after, I'm expecting them to tell me to fuck off.

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142577#msg142577 date=1137805000]
[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142567#msg142567 date=1137797331]
I mean, if you overlook the fact that the mostly-human (may be a martian or two in there, you never know) based government can't stop the hurricane from hitting, and offered them rides out of NO, the government did let them down.
[/quote]

The aftermath of the hurricane is what's relevant: the emergency response.
[/quote]

If you stayed in New Orleans after they warned you about a hurricane approaching, and even offered to take you out by bus, no offense, you are better off dead. Why should we hold their hand if they refuse to take it when they have the chance?

Don't forget, when I say "their hand" I'm calling their ugly black hands inferior, because I'm a racist. *cough*

[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142578#msg142578 date=1137805386]
Sad.
[/quote]

Howso?

[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142578#msg142578 date=1137805386]
Oh yeah I forgot, if you offer to help someone and they turn it down, you should automatically help them after. That's how the world works!
[/quote]

It's my understanding that the Governor asked for help at least the day before the hurricane (if not, earlier). I've seen the letter from the Governor to the President that evidences this. I shall try to find it if this assertion is disputed.

The fact that private corporations managed to provide help before the federal government, is, to me, evidence in itself that the government were negligent in their duty to help the citizens in New Orleans. The government, with its significantly larger pool of resources, has no excuse for mobilising so slowly.


[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142578#msg142578 date=1137805386]
If you stayed in New Orleans after they warned you about a hurricane approaching, and even offered to take you out by bus, no offense, you are better off dead. Why should we hold their hand if they refuse to take it when they have the chance?
[/quote]

You seem to be assuming that all of those people had the means to heed that warning.

When was the bus service offered? Was the capacity sufficient to serve all the citizens of New Orleans? Why do you assume that everyone was able to take advantage of this offer? What about the disabled? The sick? The elderly? The homeless? Do these people deserve to die because of their circumstances?

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142582#msg142582 date=1137806072]
[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142578#msg142578 date=1137805386]
Sad.
[/quote]

Howso?[/quote]

I thought you would have been able to piece simple logic together. Why would I refer to them as "they" and "them" over their race?

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142582#msg142582 date=1137806072]
[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142578#msg142578 date=1137805386]
Oh yeah I forgot, if you offer to help someone and they turn it down, you should automatically help them after. That's how the world works!
[/quote]

It's my understanding that the Governor asked for help at least the day before the hurricane (if not, earlier). I've seen the letter from the Governor to the President that evidences this. I shall try to find it if this assertion is disputed.

The fact that private corporations managed to provide help before the federal government, is, to me, evidence in itself that the government were negligent in their duty to help the citizens in New Orleans. The government, with its significantly larger pool of resources, has no excuse for mobilising so slowly.
[/quote]

Please do. I'd love to see his letters. Not that I don't believe you, but because I never heard this. In turn, I'll try and find proof that evacuation before the hurricane hit was offered, since I feel like I'm arguing about something I was told/mis-read.

The fact that it (by "it", I mean the national government) has to manage the rest of a gigantic nation may be one hinderance in the ability to mobilize and help NO. NO may have been important at the time, but the rest of the nation has to go on watched and such. Think BNLS updating vs JBLS. BNLS admins were too busy to update it as of a few older patches, and JBLS was much much more successful in patching and server information to clients. The BNLS, having a much larger pool of clients they have to deal with and having access to the game clients (they ran Windows all around) and thus having an easy method of patching, have no excuse for slowly patching it.

See the comparison? The BNLS admins had preoccupations with their lives. It wasn't urgent like NO was, but it was gotten around to.

Also see: the government eventually arrived. :)

[quote author=Arta[vL] link=topic=13949.msg142582#msg142582 date=1137806072]
[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142578#msg142578 date=1137805386]
If you stayed in New Orleans after they warned you about a hurricane approaching, and even offered to take you out by bus, no offense, you are better off dead. Why should we hold their hand if they refuse to take it when they have the chance?
[/quote]

You seem to be assuming that all of those people had the means to heed that warning.

When was the bus service offered? Was the capacity sufficient to serve all the citizens of New Orleans? Why do you assume that everyone was able to take advantage of this offer? What about the disabled? The sick? The elderly? The homeless? Do these people deserve to die because of their circumstances?
[/quote]

I'm assuming that some were able to heed the warning, and would tell their friends, who would tell their friends, and the chain goes on to get the majority.

Does it matter if it was sufficient to serve all of NO? The fact is, the people that were offered to help evacutate NO before the hurricane hit turned it down. Sick, elderly, homeless, disabled, it doesn't matter. They turned it down for whatever reason. Perhaps they didn't like the fact that the transportation out was dirty, perhaps they didn't think the hurricane was that big of a deal. A comedian made a joke saying "this isn't like the boats back in the 1600s where you took a free ride and ended up in chains, get that idea out of your head!" at one point on TV.

I'd like to note that my sister saw on the news that during a "Welcome Back" parade for people in New Orleans 2 people were gunned down.

Mk, thanks, burn NO...maybe the fed's didn't respond quickly enough.
Maybe that was their plan.
Maybe they wanted to destroy that part of the state & rebuild it differently.
Maybe they wanted to let hundreds die.
I dunno, I just know that NO is fucked up place that I wont ever go to.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142586#msg142586 date=1137807270]
I thought you would have been able to piece simple logic together. Why would I refer to them as "they" and "them" over their race?
[/quote]

People very often do.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142586#msg142586 date=1137807270]
Please do. I'd love to see his letters. Not that I don't believe you, but because I never heard this. In turn, I'll try and find proof that evacuation before the hurricane hit was offered, since I feel like I'm arguing about something I was told/mis-read.
[/quote]

I'll have a search.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142586#msg142586 date=1137807270]
The fact that it (by "it", I mean the national government) has to manage the rest of a gigantic nation may be one hinderance in the ability to mobilize and help NO. NO may have been important at the time, but the rest of the nation has to go on watched and such. Think BNLS updating vs JBLS. BNLS admins were too busy to update it as of a few older patches, and JBLS was much much more successful in patching and server information to clients. The BNLS, having a much larger pool of clients they have to deal with and having access to the game clients (they ran Windows all around) and thus having an easy method of patching, have no excuse for slowly patching it.

See the comparison? The BNLS admins had preoccupations with their lives. It wasn't urgent like NO was, but it was gotten around to.
[/quote]

I think that's a total cop-out. The situation in NO was not something to be dealt with 'when they got round to it'. It was, as far as I am aware, the most damaging natural disaster ever to hit the US. The severity and immediacy of the problem was more than enough to eclipse other, less pressing, work.


[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142586#msg142586 date=1137807270]
The fact is, the people that were offered to help evacutate NO before the hurricane hit turned it down.
[/quote]

I'd like to see some evidence that makes clear the accuracy and specific cirumstances of this claim.

I'd like to point out that the government was designed to move slowly to protect us from w/e.
Maybe they got tied up in massive amounts of paper work.

That's just prima facie untrue.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=13949.msg142586#msg142586 date=1137807270]

Does it matter if it was sufficient to serve all of NO? The fact is, the people that were offered to help evacutate NO before the hurricane hit turned it down. Sick, elderly, homeless, disabled, it doesn't matter. They turned it down for whatever reason.
[/quote]

I'm curious how they managed to contact every homeless person in the city/area.  They can't phone them, or find them all.  Unless there is some means to contact a large group of homeless people, your assumptions are clearly false. 

The fact that it took the federal government days to help is disgusting.  A riduclous number of people died that day.  People here talk about "horrible tragedies" where 12 minors died, or 9-11 when 3000 people died (which was enough to go to multiple wars, and completely re-do the country's security, costing billions of dollars).  Within an hour of 9-11, there was response from the federal government, and that was a complete surprise.  Then there's Katrina, where 1400 people are confirmed dead, 1300 suspected dead, and 3200 people still unaccounted for.  That's a total of almost 6000 dead!  And it took days for the federal government to respond.  There's something wrong there. 

My main question: they knew that Katrina was going to be enough to destroy the dikes before the hurrican ever hit.  Why wasn't the federal government ready to mobilize (or already mobilized) long before?  Even the Canadian government mobilizes its troops within 24 hours for national crisises, like the major ice-storms we had in Quebec a few years ago. 

9/11 vs. Katrina isn't the same thing.

In 9/11 people were all in 1 place & there were thousands of emergency response people within just a few miles.

In Katrina people were all over the place & everyone that was smart had alaready headed for the hills.
It takes time to get to a place where no one but victims are w/basically no roads.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13949.msg142708#msg142708 date=1137881486]
In Katrina people were all over the place & everyone that was smart had alaready headed for the hills.
[/quote]

Most of this discussion has been exactly against that: not everybody had the means to head "for the hills"