It's less than a week until the Canadian federal election, so I'm curious what other Canadians/educated Americans (if any of you know about Canada) think. 

So far, of the three main parties, here's what I think:

NDP (New Democrat): They are pro-giving away money to homeless and anti-technology.  I'm not a fan of keeping homeless poor (by giving them free money), and I like technology.  I don't like what they've been doing in Manitoba since they took over. 

Liberal: They've been elected in the last 2 (probably more than 2) elections.  They have proven, time and time again, that they can't be trusted.  They steal, lie, and get caught at it.  Chretien and Martin were both losers. 

PC (Progressive Conservative): Honestly, I don't know anything about them.  But the other 2 parties suck, so I'm hoping they win. 

Reform/Alliance: Do they still exist?  I seem to remember that the Canadian Reform Alliance Party (CRAP) didn't last for very long..

NDP doesn't sound cool, they sound like a stupid version of our democrats

Liberal...I dunnoyou didn't talk about their views

PC...sounds sorta oxymoronish.  Progressive yet conservative

[quote]The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada (PC) was a Canadian centre-right conservative political party that existed from 1867 to 2003. Although the party officially ceased to exist after 2003, several members of the unelected Canadian Senate continued to sit as members of the Progressive Conservative caucus, and the conservative parties in most Canadian provinces still use the Progressive Conservative name. Progressive Conservatives were colloquially known as Tories. [/quote]

(Wikipedia)

Haha, a party that doesn't even exist is in this thing? Canada is majorly flawed.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=13946.msg142242#msg142242 date=1137549574]
[quote]The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada (PC) was a Canadian centre-right conservative political party that existed from 1867 to 2003. Although the party officially ceased to exist after 2003, several members of the unelected Canadian Senate continued to sit as members of the Progressive Conservative caucus, and the conservative parties in most Canadian provinces still use the Progressive Conservative name. Progressive Conservatives were colloquially known as Tories. [/quote]

(Wikipedia)

Haha, a party that doesn't even exist is in this thing? Canada is majorly flawed.
[/quote]

Same could be said about the U.S. IMO.

[quote author=Mephisto link=topic=13946.msg142244#msg142244 date=1137549646]
[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=13946.msg142242#msg142242 date=1137549574]
[quote]The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada (PC) was a Canadian centre-right conservative political party that existed from 1867 to 2003. Although the party officially ceased to exist after 2003, several members of the unelected Canadian Senate continued to sit as members of the Progressive Conservative caucus, and the conservative parties in most Canadian provinces still use the Progressive Conservative name. Progressive Conservatives were colloquially known as Tories. [/quote]

(Wikipedia)

Haha, a party that doesn't even exist is in this thing? Canada is majorly flawed.
[/quote]

Same could be said about the U.S. IMO.
[/quote]
What parties?

[quote author=Mephisto link=topic=13946.msg142244#msg142244 date=1137549646]
[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=13946.msg142242#msg142242 date=1137549574]
[quote]The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada (PC) was a Canadian centre-right conservative political party that existed from 1867 to 2003. Although the party officially ceased to exist after 2003, several members of the unelected Canadian Senate continued to sit as members of the Progressive Conservative caucus, and the conservative parties in most Canadian provinces still use the Progressive Conservative name. Progressive Conservatives were colloquially known as Tories. [/quote]

(Wikipedia)

Haha, a party that doesn't even exist is in this thing? Canada is majorly flawed.
[/quote]

Same could be said about the U.S. IMO.
[/quote]

You can GTFO IMO.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=13946.msg142242#msg142242 date=1137549574]
[quote]The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada (PC) was a Canadian centre-right conservative political party that existed from 1867 to 2003. Although the party officially ceased to exist after 2003, several members of the unelected Canadian Senate continued to sit as members of the Progressive Conservative caucus, and the conservative parties in most Canadian provinces still use the Progressive Conservative name. Progressive Conservatives were colloquially known as Tories. [/quote]

(Wikipedia)

Haha, a party that doesn't even exist is in this thing? Canada is majorly flawed.
[/quote]

Ah, I was wondering about that.  I guess it's just the "Conservatives" now.

<edit> The post I quoted disappeared, so I edited my reply to reflect that.  I kept one quote though, because it's important:

[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142261#msg142261 date=1137551916]
The PC is not running in the Canadian election.  It merged with the "Alliance," and is now the conservative party, under Stephen Harper. 
[/quote]
Sorry, that was my fault.  I forgot that the PC changed to Conservative (along with the Alliance). 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142231#msg142231 date=1137547731]
It's less than a week until the Canadian federal election, so I'm curious what other Canadians/educated Americans (if any of you know about Canada) think. 

So far, of the three main parties, here's what I think:

NDP (New Democrat): They are pro-giving away money to homeless and anti-technology.  I'm not a fan of keeping homeless poor (by giving them free money), and I like technology.  I don't like what they've been doing in Manitoba since they took over. 

Liberal: They've been elected in the last 2 (probably more than 2) elections.  They have proven, time and time again, that they can't be trusted.  They steal, lie, and get caught at it.  Chretien and Martin were both losers. 

PC (Progressive Conservative): Honestly, I don't know anything about them.  But the other 2 parties suck, so I'm hoping they win. 

Reform/Alliance: Do they still exist?  I seem to remember that the Canadian Reform Alliance Party (CRAP) didn't last for very long..

[/quote]

Dont care who wins aslong as the "Conservative"'s don't win, they can stick their blue, white, and red flags up their ass since they like to sell our country out every time they are in power.

I did some reading on our Conservative party, and I agree, I very much hope they don't win.  All of our choices suck badly, actually.  The best case, in my opinion, is if Paul Martin and his Liberals win, but I don't much care for that. 

NDP - I already said, and my opinion hasn't changed. 
Conservative - Very religious, against freedom (including gay marriages), and, as you said, they're sellouts. 
Liberal - Keep getting caught with their paws in the money, but at least they're running our country well. 

I'd vote for whoever is running in the CRAP party, just for the hell of it! =)

[quote author=l)ragon link=topic=13946.msg142370#msg142370 date=1137627218]
Dont care who wins aslong as the "Conservative"'s don't win, they can stick their blue, white, and red flags up their ass since they like to sell our country out every time they are in power.
[/quote]
uhm, since when the fuck does the Canadian flag have blue in it?...
[img]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/ca-lgflag.gif[/img]

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142435#msg142435 date=1137649260]
[quote author=l)ragon link=topic=13946.msg142370#msg142370 date=1137627218]
Dont care who wins aslong as the "Conservative"'s don't win, they can stick their blue, white, and red flags up their ass since they like to sell our country out every time they are in power.
[/quote]
uhm, since when the fuck does the Canadian flag have blue in it?...
[/quote]

Maybe read his post again and take a look at your own flag.

[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142439#msg142439 date=1137650745]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142435#msg142435 date=1137649260]
[quote author=l)ragon link=topic=13946.msg142370#msg142370 date=1137627218]
Dont care who wins aslong as the "Conservative"'s don't win, they can stick their blue, white, and red flags up their ass since they like to sell our country out every time they are in power.
[/quote]
uhm, since when the fuck does the Canadian flag have blue in it?...
[/quote]

Maybe read his post again and take a look at your own flag.

[/quote]I know what he is talking about, but I don't get why he is talking about a US election while everyone else is talking about the Canadian election

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142456#msg142456 date=1137681497]
[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142439#msg142439 date=1137650745]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142435#msg142435 date=1137649260]
[quote author=l)ragon link=topic=13946.msg142370#msg142370 date=1137627218]
Dont care who wins aslong as the "Conservative"'s don't win, they can stick their blue, white, and red flags up their ass since they like to sell our country out every time they are in power.
[/quote]
uhm, since when the fuck does the Canadian flag have blue in it?...
[/quote]

Maybe read his post again and take a look at your own flag.

[/quote]I know what he is talking about, but I don't get why he is talking about a US election while everyone else is talking about the Canadian election
[/quote]

Wrong again.  He isn't talking about a US election.

[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142471#msg142471 date=1137694946]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142456#msg142456 date=1137681497]
[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142439#msg142439 date=1137650745]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142435#msg142435 date=1137649260]
[quote author=l)ragon link=topic=13946.msg142370#msg142370 date=1137627218]
Dont care who wins aslong as the "Conservative"'s don't win, they can stick their blue, white, and red flags up their ass since they like to sell our country out every time they are in power.
[/quote]
uhm, since when the fuck does the Canadian flag have blue in it?...
[/quote]

Maybe read his post again and take a look at your own flag.

[/quote]I know what he is talking about, but I don't get why he is talking about a US election while everyone else is talking about the Canadian election
[/quote]

Wrong again.  He isn't talking about a US election.

[/quote]Then why is he talking about US politicians in a Canadian election thread?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142435#msg142435 date=1137649260]
[quote author=l)ragon link=topic=13946.msg142370#msg142370 date=1137627218]
Dont care who wins aslong as the "Conservative"'s don't win, they can stick their blue, white, and red flags up their ass since they like to sell our country out every time they are in power.
[/quote]
uhm, since when the fuck does the Canadian flag have blue in it?...
]
[/quote]

Guess you have never seen their logo then have you, the Conservative logo is blue white and red.

[img]http://www.thehammer.ca/content/2005/0415/conservative_election_sign.jpg[/img]
That thing I guess?

I wouldn't call it a flag, more of a symbol

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142513#msg142513 date=1137717954]
[img]http://www.thehammer.ca/content/2005/0415/conservative_election_sign.jpg[/img]
That thing I guess?

I wouldn't call it a flag, more of a symbol
[/quote]
well we had a flag out side of where i work and we burned it.

[quote author=l)ragon link=topic=13946.msg142514#msg142514 date=1137718158]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142513#msg142513 date=1137717954]
[img]http://www.thehammer.ca/content/2005/0415/conservative_election_sign.jpg[/img]
That thing I guess?

I wouldn't call it a flag, more of a symbol
[/quote]
well we had a flag out side of where i work and we burned it.
[/quote]MMMMk.

Unless the liberals are put out of power by Canadians that love their country their country is going to stay crapped up by the selfish liberals that don't give a crap about the greater Canada.

Here is the TRUTH about Canada from a Canadian that loves his country and wants to make it better. You won't hear this from any Canadian on this forum because they dont want you to know the real truth about Canada!

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/04/11/113004_16_canadian.asx

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142553#msg142553 date=1137782561]
http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/04/11/113004_16_canadian.asx
[/quote]
Heh, oh dang.
Canada SUCKS ASS more than I thought.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142553#msg142553 date=1137782561]
Unless the liberals are put out of power by Canadians that love their country their country is going to stay crapped up by the selfish liberals that don't give a crap about the greater Canada.
[/quote]
I'm afriad that you don't know anything about Canada. 

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142553#msg142553 date=1137782561]
Here is the TRUTH about Canada from a Canadian that loves his country and wants to make it better. You won't hear this from any Canadian on this forum because they dont want you to know the real truth about Canada!

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/04/11/113004_16_canadian.asx
[/quote]
So they take a Canadian who loves Americans.  He exagerates about everything he says, and most of it is total bull.  All the fees he talks about are at least double what we pay, usually more.  It's totally biased, there's nothing true about what he says.  I don't know where he's living, but I shut it off after the part about the copper in his finger, I couldn't take his bullcrap anymore. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142566#msg142566 date=1137797205]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142553#msg142553 date=1137782561]
Unless the liberals are put out of power by Canadians that love their country their country is going to stay crapped up by the selfish liberals that don't give a crap about the greater Canada.
[/quote]
I'm afriad that you don't know anything about Canada. 

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142553#msg142553 date=1137782561]
Here is the TRUTH about Canada from a Canadian that loves his country and wants to make it better. You won't hear this from any Canadian on this forum because they dont want you to know the real truth about Canada!

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/04/11/113004_16_canadian.asx
[/quote]
So they take a Canadian who loves Americans.  He exagerates about everything he says, and most of it is total bull.  All the fees he talks about are at least double what we pay, usually more.  It's totally biased, there's nothing true about what he says.  I don't know where he's living, but I shut it off after the part about the copper in his finger, I couldn't take his bullcrap anymore. 
[/quote]
Those were his experiences of Canada.
What are yours?

Invert, I could find tons of people saying bad things about the US who live in the US.  If you don't realize how stupid and uncredible that radioshow and person are, then you're a lot less intelligent than I thought.  Or you do understand, and you're just posting it anyways to be provocative?

(On a side note I find it funny that he reveals he got a big wad of copper stuck in himself and also has a criminal record.... oh man... what a credible guy).


I'm generally beyond this "my country is better than yours," tone underscoring most of Crazeds' (and your?) inane posts.  If you lived in Canada you'd be saying how much better Canada is than the rest of the world, if you lived in Sweden you'd be saying how great it is.  You're transparently brainwashed.  Get over it.

My Family is Conservative, I think they suck, but they're better then the other ones.  I don't like what Mike Harris did though; I want my grade 13 back.

I don't think this should be taken too seriously, but it's mildly interesting --
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8615

Bill Clinton has a MAJOR mark on his criminal record.
How credible is he?

We're not talking about an american president.  Note the title of this thread, "Canadian Election."

[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142660#msg142660 date=1137862637]
We're not talking about an american president.  Note the title of this thread, "Canadian Election."


[/quote]
[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142590#msg142590 date=1137809000]
Invert, I could find tons of people saying bad things about the US who live in the US.  If you don't realize how stupid and uncredible that radioshow and person are, then you're a lot less intelligent than I thought.  Or you do understand, and you're just posting it anyways to be provocative?

(On a side note I find it funny that he reveals he got a big wad of copper stuck in himself and also has a criminal record.... oh man... what a credible guy).


I'm generally beyond this "my country is better than yours," tone underscoring most of Crazeds' (and your?) inane posts.  If you lived in Canada you'd be saying how much better Canada is than the rest of the world, if you lived in Sweden you'd be saying how great it is.  You're transparently brainwashed.  Get over it.
[/quote]

We're not talking about "my country is better" either...Note the title.

Um... good point.  Invert brought it up.  And just because someone posts something
stupid doesn't give you the right to do the same.

I believe it was all relevant.

We're talking about the Canadian election, Invert provided a clip of a Canadian that doesn't like the extreme leftism that takes place there, someone mentioned that the dude might not be credible because he was arrested, I mentioned that Clinton committed a felony & asked if he was still credible.

I believe it all works out.

Now we're both slightly off topic arguing about the on-topicness of some of the posts

Ok, Clinton definitely isn't credible.  Neither is Bush or Reagan or Harper or Martin.  They're all liars, how else would they manage to get elected?  Isn't there a saying, "Anybody who is capable of getting elected to president shouldn't be allowed to do the job"?  I wish I had the source for that quote, or whatever the actual quote is, but it's a good one. 

But that guy on that radio thing is even less credible, because much of what he says are either blatant lies, or are special cases (maybe he just has a really, really crappy hospital).  The longest I've ever known anybody to wait as a hospital, in a non-emergency situation, is 5-6 hours.  That's for something that isn't going to kill them.  Pregnancies are admitted instantly, and somebody who is in critical condition is admitted immediately.  I've never heard of a miscarriage in the waiting room before.  And all emergency room doctors are fully trained and licensed, not some student who does half a job.  The only way I could POSSIBLY see any of that happening is if he went to the hospital for a really stupid reason (maybe he had a piece of wire pierce his skin and do no real damage, but he wanted to prove a point by tying up the hospital, so they put him last on the queue?)  I'm rather curious about how bad his "injury" actually was. 

Also, we don't have 15% federal tax.  Where I live, we have 7% provincial and 7% federal sales tax, which I think is totally understandable.  In Alberta, they have 7% federal tax, and that's it.  Again, he's generalizing to make things sound worse than they are.  I can safely say that I've never complained about sales tax, it's just a part of life.  And my dad's family makes about the same as he does, per year, and he doesn't pay nearly as much income tax.  So I don't know where he lives, but he's got that wrong, too. 

Suffice it to say, that guy is full of crap.

14% sales tax is still way high.
When ours went to 7% I was depressed

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142706#msg142706 date=1137881309]
14% sales tax is still way high.
When ours went to 7% I was depressed
[/quote]

Americans have local sales tax (for states) between 3% and 10%, and no national tax.  So technically, on average, your states' sales tax (about 7%) is the same as ours (7%).  The difference is that you don't have a federal sales tax, and we do.  I still don't think 14% is that bad, though, it could be a lot worse.  The money we give there helps the country. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142707#msg142707 date=1137881465]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142706#msg142706 date=1137881309]
14% sales tax is still way high.
When ours went to 7% I was depressed
[/quote]

Americans have local sales tax (for states) between 3% and 10%, and no national tax.  So technically, on average, your states' sales tax (about 7%) is the same as ours (7%).  The difference is that you don't have a federal sales tax, and we do.  I still don't think 14% is that bad, though, it could be a lot worse.  The money we give there helps the country. 

[/quote]
I guess it could be worse, yeah.
What is your income tax percentage?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142709#msg142709 date=1137881532]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142707#msg142707 date=1137881465]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142706#msg142706 date=1137881309]
14% sales tax is still way high.
When ours went to 7% I was depressed
[/quote]

Americans have local sales tax (for states) between 3% and 10%, and no national tax.  So technically, on average, your states' sales tax (about 7%) is the same as ours (7%).  The difference is that you don't have a federal sales tax, and we do.  I still don't think 14% is that bad, though, it could be a lot worse.  The money we give there helps the country. 

[/quote]
I guess it could be worse, yeah.
What is your income tax percentage?
[/quote]

Right now, since I'm going to University and can claim my education, I'm paying 0%. 

But on a paycheck of $1200, I was paying about $150 (though I got it back).  150/1200 = 12.5%.  I have no idea if that's typical, though. 

Wikipedia doesn't have information on Canadian income tax, but I *believe* that, according to this page, the average Canadian family pays 10.7%, and the average Canadian individual pays 17.4%.  But I could be fully wrong, I'm not positive that that's what that page means.  But that sure doesn't come close to the 50% that that guy's claiming. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142694#msg142694 date=1137874706]

Suffice it to say, that guy is full of crap.

[/quote]

I'd also like comment on his statement that people aren't interested in medicine as a profession anymore, "because the money's not there."  Approximately 70% of 1st year science undergraduates identify themselves as "pre-med," and the average income of a general practicioner is > $150000/year (since Doctors are mostly funded by the government, I get this figure from publicly available billing statements; however, since some of their income is based on private operations, etc, the average income is actually a bit higher than this).  Although many may claim otherwise, it's quite transparent that most of these so-called "pre-med" students are interested in the profession for the money, and the prestige.  So not only is he horribly mistaken about the lack of interest in medicine, he is also grossly wrong in his reason for the supposed lack of interest.  Seems like he's willing to say anything to make Canada look bad -- like I said, it's pretty easy to look up how much Doctors are making, they are government employees.

Also, that guy could have gone to a walk-in clinic and have been seen in less than 20 minutes (for free!) for his likely trivial problem.  If you go to the emergency room for a problem that obviously isn't an emergency, you're an idiot, and you should expect to wait a long time to be seen.

As far as Canada being "leftist" (a somewhat ignorant sounding expression, in my opinion), we are further to "the right" of middle than most first world countries -- France, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Austria, Switzerland.  All of these places have a very high standard of living.  We currently have a more left-wing government than the US, but people (in the US) seem to forget that the US is more of an exception in their place on the spectrum (as far as first world countries go), rather than a standard.



In further news, it looks like the Conservatives are going to win a minority government in tomorrow's election.

My post was not about U.S. being better than Canada or vice versa. My post was about Canada being too liberal. If fact so liberal that it blames U.S. for its problems, attitude like that does not help Canada in any way. I believe that liberalism is harmful to any nation.

I don't listen to that show I just found the audio file on the internet. Iago they did not "take a Canadian who loves Americans" he called the show to express his views about liberalism in Canada.

Iago and Rule, you say that the guy in the audio clip is not credible but what makes you guys more credible than he is?

Iago you said that "It's totally biased, there's nothing true about what he says." Can you dispute everything he is saying with facts? If it's not true than prove him wrong.

Rule, you can call him stupid and you can say that I am less intelligent than you thought I was (even though I don't understand what I said that would make you think that) but that will not make you any more credible than the Canadian in the audio clip.

Also I never brought anything up about my country being better than yours; you accuse me of something I have not done.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142740#msg142740 date=1137905033]
My post was not about U.S. being better than Canada or vice versa. My post was about Canada being too liberal. If fact so liberal that it blames U.S. for its problems, attitude like that does not help Canada in any way. I believe that liberalism is harmful to any nation.
[/quote]

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142740#msg142740 date=1137905033]
Also I never brought anything up about my country being better than yours; you accuse me of something I have not done.
[/quote]

I've seen a lot of threads recently with this sort of superior attitude, and it's quite uncalled for.  One of the main points of that clip seemed to be trying not only to illustrate how supposedly horrible it is in Canada (because of this so-called "leftism"), but to contrast it with the US, which supposedly is so much better.

Re: intelligence comment.  Invert, I don't think you're stupid, which is partly why I was angry that you posted that clip.  I would have been less ticked off had I thought very little of you.  Please don't tell me that you actually think that guy should be taken seriously, or that he is some kind of "proof" as to what Canada is really like, and for whatever reason anyone who happens to be Canadian on this forum should be ignored as a rule, because they "don't want you to know what Canada is really like" (insert horror music).  To me it just seems like flame bait crap.

This brings me to your points on credibility. 

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg142740#msg142740 date=1137905033]
iago and Rule, you say that the guy in the audio clip is not credible but what makes you guys more credible than he is?
[/quote]

Well, I'm sure you can think of a few reasons. 

As far as general impressions go, all we really know about that guy on the radio station is that he has called an obviously biased source, and in the space of 5 minutes indirectly revealed that he has a criminal record and was really stupid for going to the emergency room after getting a "big wad of copper" stuck in himself.

I should hope that you have a better impression of either of us.  If you don't, though, it shouldn't really matter.  You don't need to rely on our "impressions" of Canada, both of us have cited facts from credible sources to counter his points.

His claim #1)  We have a federal tax of 15%
Response:  Not true.  We have a federal tax of 7%, and in some provinces like Alberta, no provincial tax at all.  The maximum provincial tax is 7%.  Therefore we have a maximum sales tax of 14%, and on average, the combined sales tax is much less than this.  Go to http://www.statscan.ca, source: federal government of Canada.

His claim #2) No interest in medicine.
Response: 70% of 1st year science undergrads identify themselves as "pre-med."  (This was from a survey conducted at UBC, McGill, UofT). 

His claim #3) ... because there isn't money in the profession
Response: Again, go to http://www.statscan.ca  .  There you will find the minimum annual incomes of any doctor in Canada.  This information is necessarily public, because Doctors are paid with public money.  On average, a Doctor makes ~$200000/year (~$150000 for general practicioner); would you say there isn't money in this profession?

His claim #4)  Ludicrously high income tax.  (His main complaint seems to be taxes.... interesting, this usually isn't a major issue in elections).
Response:  iago linked a source showing that the average individual pays ~17% income tax.

His claim #5)  Waiting times?
Healthcare in Canada is considered internationally to possibly be the best in the world.....  This guy is a moron.  Obviously it's harder to get "statistics" on waiting times, but there are walk-in clinics everywhere over here.  I've never had to wait longer than 20 minutes to be seen for the most trivial of problems.  If anyone really wanted to verify this, they could try looking up a few walk in clinics, say in Vancouver, and ask them how long they should expect to wait to be seen if they were to drop in.

The only possible way I can see any element to his story being true is if he went to the emergency room for his non-emergency problem.  If he did go to the emergency room (and there's a 99% chance he did because he said he went to a hospital I think?), obviously he didn't see a student doctor (this is another reason I think this guy is stupid -- if you're trying to make the system look bad, at least make up something believable).  I won't bother searching for a source saying, "we don't put student Doctors in the emergency room."  I think this goes without saying.  It would be like trying to find a source saying "we don't give RCMP troopers command of the Canadian army."

[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142741#msg142741 date=1137906721]
The only possible way I can see any element to his story being true is if he went to the emergency room for his non-emergency problem.  If he did go to the emergency room (and there's a 99% chance he did because he said he went to a hospital I think?), obviously he didn't see a student doctor (this is another reason I think this guy is stupid -- if you're trying to make the system look bad, at least make up something believable).  I won't bother searching for a source saying, "we don't put student Doctors in the emergency room."  I think this goes without saying.  It would be like trying to find a source saying "we don't give RCMP troopers command of the Canadian army."
[/quote]

Well, if some idiot walked into the emegency room with a piece of copper stuck to his finger, I could see them getting the janitor to pull it out.  Why waste perfectly good medical staff? :)

Thye whole "interest in medicine" thing can't be because they're in it for the money.  $150,000 isn't much.
Also, 1st year undergrads?...Most people change their minds about their major before they graduate.

Canada is not the best healthcare system in the world by far.
& I'm quite sure you'd be able to find student doctors in the ER room.  They're everywhere trainning

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142767#msg142767 date=1137949162]
Thye whole "interest in medicine" thing can't be because they're in it for the money.  $150,000 isn't much.
Also, 1st year undergrads?...Most people change their minds about their major before they graduate.

Canada is not the best healthcare system in the world by far.
& I'm quite sure you'd be able to find student doctors in the ER room.  They're everywhere trainning
[/quote]

Um, yeah, it's much better than in the US.  How on earth would you know how good Canada's healthcare system is?  You don't even know that we have a Prime Minister and not a President, that we became an independent Country in 1867 (Canada Day), not 1982, and that in 1982 the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was implemented.  Also, you don't know how our electoral system works, you didn't know who our Prime Minister was, you don't know what our taxes are like, you probably couldn't even name the capital of Canada.  I repeat my question, how on earth would you know anything about Canada's healthcare system?  You seem to like to talk about a lot of things
you know nothing about, usually with an aggressive/patriotic twist.

You'd be able to find students in the emergency room, but not operating.  Stop being particularly dense on purpose.

Also, $150000/year over here can go pretty far, I don't know about over there though.  And that's really a minimum annual salary.  If you work hard as a Doctor here, you can make over $300000/year.

Yeah, I'm sure 70% of 4th year undergrads don't identify themselves as pre-med anymore.  But 70% in 1st year is absolutely huge -- regardless of whether all of them decide to apply or not (when you think of all the professions to choose from, and that 70% of 1st year students want one particular one? obviously it's significantly more popular than anything else -- like law).


Edit:  That guy also claimed that the reason drugs are cheaper in Canada is because all the research and development is done in the US, by companies like Merck.  Actually, most of the drug companies are European and do their research in Europe -- Pfizer, Wyeth, etc.  Merck, the one he mentioned as a US drug company, has its headquarters (and R&D headquarters) in Darmstadt, Germany:
http://www.merck.de/servlet/PB/menu/1069470/.

TV specials, as I recall

Quebec is almost commuistic in their views of healthcare outlawing pritization, as I read.  That seems sorta gay

I was doing some research, and there's one small slip-up in your post, Rule:

[quote author=Rule link=topic=13946.msg142741#msg142741 date=1137906721]
His claim #1)  We have a federal tax of 15%
Response:  Not true.  We have a federal tax of 7%, and in some provinces like Alberta, no provincial tax at all.  The maximum provincial tax is 7%.  Therefore we have a maximum sales tax of 14%, and on average, the combined sales tax is much less than this.  Go to http://www.statscan.ca, source: federal government of Canada.
[/quote]

Unless this Wikipedia article is wrong (which is possible),
- NB, NFL, and NS = 15% sales tax (PST and GST were combined)
- ON has 8% PST = 15%
- PQ has 8.025% PST (7%, compounded with GST for some reason) = 15.025%
- PEI has 10.7% PST (10%, compounded with GST) = 17.7%

PEI is understandable, because their economy  has suffered badly in the last few years, since it's based on fishing and they haven't been able to do much of that, so I can see why they have to raise tax. 

Other than that, the rest of your facts check out as far as I can tell. 

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142771#msg142771 date=1137953433]
TV specials, as I recall

Quebec is almost commuistic in their views of healthcare outlawing pritization, as I read.  That seems sorta gay
[/quote]
Actually, that's completely backwards.  Quebec is the only province that allows privitized health care.  They don't make a big deal out of it, like they did in Alberta when they (almost?) introduced two-teir healthcare.  But in Quebec, there are paid clinics where you can have operations done.  So, unless my sources are wrong (I don't have anything I'm allowed to cite, it's information we discussed while I worked in government), yours are. 

Hmm, I must be confused then.
I understand from the article that Quebec had a law preventing people from buying private health insurance to pay for medial services, the Supreme Court overturned it?...

[quote]A recent Canadian court decision has ruled that the Canadian health care system, which outlaws private health insurance, contravened the Quebec Charter of Rights guaranteeing the right to security of the person. In June 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada overturned a Quebec law preventing people from buying private health insurance to pay for medical services available through the publicly funded system. While the ruling applies only to the province of Quebec, it is believed by some that it could fundamentally change the way health care is delivered across the country.[/quote]

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142785#msg142785 date=1137962082]
Hmm, I must be confused then.
I understand from the article that Quebec had a law preventing people from buying private health insurance to pay for medial services, the Supreme Court overturned it?...

[quote]A recent Canadian court decision has ruled that the Canadian health care system, which outlaws private health insurance, contravened the Quebec Charter of Rights guaranteeing the right to security of the person. In June 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada overturned a Quebec law preventing people from buying private health insurance to pay for medical services available through the publicly funded system. While the ruling applies only to the province of Quebec, it is believed by some that it could fundamentally change the way health care is delivered across the country.[/quote]
[/quote]

There's a big difference between private healthcare and private health insurance. 

The laws were about whether or not people in Quebec could buy insurance to provide coverage.  Without it, they have to pay cash (or credit or whatever) for private healthcare.

Although slightly off the flow of conversation, I figured I'd mention that I just finished voting and I'm crossing my fingers for the Conservative party.

[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg142901#msg142901 date=1138062172]
Although slightly off the flow of conversation, I figured I'd mention that I just finished voting and I'm crossing my fingers for the Conservative party.
[/quote]

Eww.  I hate all 3 parties, but I hate Conservative most.  They're religious USA-lovers, which are both really bad things, in my eyes. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142902#msg142902 date=1138062498]
[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg142901#msg142901 date=1138062172]
Although slightly off the flow of conversation, I figured I'd mention that I just finished voting and I'm crossing my fingers for the Conservative party.
[/quote]

Eww.  I hate all 3 parties, but I hate Conservative most.  They're religious USA-lovers, which are both really bad things, in my eyes. 
[/quote]Did you vote?

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142908#msg142908 date=1138064980]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142902#msg142902 date=1138062498]
[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg142901#msg142901 date=1138062172]
Although slightly off the flow of conversation, I figured I'd mention that I just finished voting and I'm crossing my fingers for the Conservative party.
[/quote]

Eww.  I hate all 3 parties, but I hate Conservative most.  They're religious USA-lovers, which are both really bad things, in my eyes. 
[/quote]Did you vote?
[/quote]

I voted.... for none.  You can think of it as a form of protest.  I hate all 3 options almost equally, none of them deserve my vote. 

Of course, I hate conservatives slightly more than the others, and they're likely the ones who will win (or have won.. what time do the polls close?)

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142916#msg142916 date=1138068575]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142908#msg142908 date=1138064980]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142902#msg142902 date=1138062498]
[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg142901#msg142901 date=1138062172]
Although slightly off the flow of conversation, I figured I'd mention that I just finished voting and I'm crossing my fingers for the Conservative party.
[/quote]

Eww.  I hate all 3 parties, but I hate Conservative most.  They're religious USA-lovers, which are both really bad things, in my eyes. 
[/quote]Did you vote?
[/quote]

I voted.... for none.  You can think of it as a form of protest.  I hate all 3 options almost equally, none of them deserve my vote. 

Of course, I hate conservatives slightly more than the others, and they're likely the ones who will win (or have won.. what time do the polls close?)
[/quote]
Uhm, no, I believe not voting is a form of stupidity & treasonesque.
Protesting would be holding a sign in where ever your government building thing is or calling your representative.
Not voting is say "who gives a flip, I couldn't care less what happens to Canada"

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142917#msg142917 date=1138069224]
Uhm, no, I believe not voting is a form of stupidity & treasonesque.
Protesting would be holding a sign in where ever your government building thing is or calling your representative.
Not voting is say "who gives a flip, I couldn't care less what happens to Canada"
[/quote]

Then who do you vote for, an idiot, a thief, or a zealot? 

The NDP waste money on stupid things, and are really bad for the economy
The Liberals have "lost" over $2 billion in the last 3 or 4 years
The Conservatives are run by a very religious person, and I think religion and government should be separate (zealot is a strong word, but I can't think of any word for it). 

As far as I'm concerned, not voting is a perfectly valid vote.  I'm doing it out of protest (passive resistance), not out of ignorance/apathy.  What's wrong with not voting for somebody you know you're going to hate?

I'm not going to march around with a sign that says "all politicians suck".  I express myself differently than that. 

I think this line from The Simpsons summarizes everything, "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodoss"

reminder befor somone does it lol, do not post any of the seat numbers or say who is in the lead, people have had criminal charges for doing so during other election's lol.

not my place to say since its not my message board just warning you befor hand.

and i hope the conservative's chock on their own shit for calling this election.

Yeah, but it's after 8pm EST, so most polls are closed.  If you live in BC, don't look down!

[pre][Party] [Elected] [Leading] [Vote Share]
CON 12 75 34.99%
LIB 18 52 38.31%
BQ 1 28 1.55%
NDP 3 20 22.00%
IND 0 1 .34%
OTH 0 0 2.80%
[/pre]

That's so cool how an independent is leading in one area! :)

I like how LIB has more percentage, but CON has more seats. 

A Conservative minority might not be so bad, though, At least it's really close. :)

<edit>
CON 19 78 35.21%
LIB 19 67 37.62%
BQ 1 39 2.19%
NDP 4 16 21.62%
IND 0 1 .34%
OTH 0 0 3.01%

Liberal is catching up! :)

CON  LIB  PQ    NDP
98 86 49 22
Total Elected and Leading

CON and LIB are still really close.. Harper and Martin must have been excited :)

But I guess we have a minority Conservative government.  We'll see what happens!

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142926#msg142926 date=1138072359]
CON  LIB   PQ    NDP
98 86 49 22
Total Elected and Leading

CON and LIB are still really close.. Harper and Martin must have been excited :)

But I guess we have a minority Conservative government.  We'll see what happens!
[/quote]
think its going to end up as a desideing vote in B.C. lol then again there are the mail in votes still to be counted.

It's not likely that anything will change enough to give the liberals 18 more seats, there are only 42 more up for grabs, and the liberals only have half of them.  So pretty much every incomplete one where the Tories are winning have to change to Liberal, but that won't happen. 

122 104 50 30
CON  LIB  BQ  NDP

At least conservatives only have a minority, they need liberals on their side to do anything. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142916#msg142916 date=1138068575]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142908#msg142908 date=1138064980]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142902#msg142902 date=1138062498]
[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg142901#msg142901 date=1138062172]
Although slightly off the flow of conversation, I figured I'd mention that I just finished voting and I'm crossing my fingers for the Conservative party.
[/quote]

Eww. I hate all 3 parties, but I hate Conservative most. They're religious USA-lovers, which are both really bad things, in my eyes.
[/quote]Did you vote?
[/quote]

I voted.... for none. You can think of it as a form of protest. I hate all 3 options almost equally, none of them deserve my vote.

Of course, I hate conservatives slightly more than the others, and they're likely the ones who will win (or have won.. what time do the polls close?)
[/quote]

Good job!

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142923#msg142923 date=1138070030]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142917#msg142917 date=1138069224]
Uhm, no, I believe not voting is a form of stupidity & treasonesque.
Protesting would be holding a sign in where ever your government building thing is or calling your representative.
Not voting is say "who gives a flip, I couldn't care less what happens to Canada"
[/quote]

Then who do you vote for, an idiot, a thief, or a zealot? 

The NDP waste money on stupid things, and are really bad for the economy
The Liberals have "lost" over $2 billion in the last 3 or 4 years
The Conservatives are run by a very religious person, and I think religion and government should be separate (zealot is a strong word, but I can't think of any word for it). 

As far as I'm concerned, not voting is a perfectly valid vote.  I'm doing it out of protest (passive resistance), not out of ignorance/apathy.  What's wrong with not voting for somebody you know you're going to hate?

I'm not going to march around with a sign that says "all politicians suck".  I express myself differently than that. 

I think this line from The Simpsons summarizes everything, "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodoss"

[/quote]That's just a cop-out.
You could vote for someone you agreed w/on the issues, there has to be SOMEONE out there who is at least close, Canada isn't that non-diverse.
You have to make compromises to get anywhere in life.

iago did you vote?

I'm glad the Conversatives won, apparently they're more conservative than America's right.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13946.msg142932#msg142932 date=1138083811]
That's just a cop-out.
You could vote for someone you agreed w/on the issues, there has to be SOMEONE out there who is at least close, Canada isn't that non-diverse.
You have to make compromises to get anywhere in life.
[/quote]

I disagree.  But apparently we aren't going to be able to agree on the subject, so whatever. 

Liberals are retards iago, a (ex)group of helicopters will say we're leaving to go work for the US, and we'll say no stay *flash money, several millions, and more at them of canadian hard workers money* and a year or so later, they'll be down in the US. They don't know how to run shit all. Not only that, but they steal our money, and no one ever got arrested hmm... Corrupt. Why trust people who don't know how to handle or give money to the right things.

NPD Well I don't know too much about them. Except that they want to help the homeless, I really didn't watch the debates.

Conservatives: This moron should shut up, and stop making false promises aswell. Not only that but learn some french.

Personally I wouldn't go voting for con or lib, but I say ndp should have a shot at running the country, its not like they can do w/e they want...

But then again after what the liberals did, and nothing happened, it opens up ideas. And Quebec said it themselves, if this new government isn't better then the other one they will do the seperation thing again asap. Why stick to a country that likes to get fucked around. Just like the states and their leader.

I hear about a huge hurricane, and I go fishing.

And personally I don't want that, since in 30-60 years tops the place will become more english then french imho.

WoOdTroll, the only thing you said that gave me pause was the last.  Why does it matter to you whether most people speak English or most speak French?

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13946.msg142966#msg142966 date=1138123433]
Liberals are retards iago, a (ex)group of helicopters will say we're leaving to go work for the US, and we'll say no stay *flash money, several millions, and more at them of canadian hard workers money* and a year or so later, they'll be down in the US. They don't know how to run shit all. Not only that, but they steal our money, and no one ever got arrested hmm... Corrupt. Why trust people who don't know how to handle or give money to the right things.
[/quote]
I agree that Liberals suck.  But I think that about all politicians, so Liberals aren't much worse.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13946.msg142966#msg142966 date=1138123433]
NPD Well I don't know too much about them. Except that they want to help the homeless, I really didn't watch the debates.
[/quote]
The NDP* don't help the homeless, they give money to the homeless, which keeps them homeless because they don't learn how to get money.  I don't believe in the NDP's philosophy of wasting money on stupid things, especially giving away free money.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13946.msg142966#msg142966 date=1138123433]
Conservatives: This moron should shut up, and stop making false promises aswell. Not only that but learn some french.
[/quote]
I don't care about language, but yeah, they are bad for making false promises.  Of course, so are the rest of the parties.  We'll see if they follow through and lower GST (hah!), since Mulroony completely ruined the PC party 15(?) years ago when he invented GST. 

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13946.msg142966#msg142966 date=1138123433]
Personally I wouldn't go voting for con or lib, but I say ndp should have a shot at running the country, its not like they can do w/e they want...
[/quote]
They run my province, and I'm not impressed.


As I said, I hate all 3 parties.  And the only other party in my area is the Christian Republic Party or something like that. 

Something interesting: Alberta is 100% Conservative, and Saskatchewan is 10/12 conservative. 

French sucks...but I'm glad I'm learning French & not English, english would be WAY hard to learn

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142928#msg142928 date=1138076604]
At least conservatives only have a minority, they need liberals on their side to do anything.
[/quote]

Actually, no, the Conservatives only require the support of NDP and IND in order to achieve 50%, if the Liberals also achieve 50% with BQ support, the decision will be in the hands of the Speaker, generally he sides with the party in power.

[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg143173#msg143173 date=1138240705]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142928#msg142928 date=1138076604]
At least conservatives only have a minority, they need liberals on their side to do anything.
[/quote]

Actually, no, the Conservatives only require the support of NDP and IND in order to achieve 50%, if the Liberals also achieve 50% with BQ support, the decision will be in the hands of the Speaker, generally he sides with the party in power.
[/quote]

You're right, I realized that after.  At least Liberal and NDP tend to go the same way.  So the only way to really screw us is to get BQ support. 

I would like to congratulate the Canadians on their election. Too bad it took 12 years for them to realize that the liberals were only harming Canada and that it was time for a change.

I believe now we will have a better relationship between Canada and the United States, this should help both countries when it comes to boarder protection and the war against terrorism.

Just a note to those that do not know, Canadian conservatives are not like the conservatives in the United States. I would consider Canadian conservatives to be like very moderate conservatives here in the United States.

Rule/Iago - You guys still fail to dispute everything your fellow Canadian said about Canada in that audio clip and as for healthcare, let me use this analogy:

You have 2 identical WoW servers, one server has 10,000 people connecting to it the other has only 10 people connecting to it. What server do you think people are going to point their finger at and scream that it's slow?

My point is that in the United States our healthcare system serves much more people than your healthcare system in Canada. You can't say that your healthcare system is better or worse because we can not know unless you have it serve as many patients as our healthcare system. As far as we know, the healthcare system in the United States can and does serve much more people then your healthcare system.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg143185#msg143185 date=1138242298]
I would like to congratulate the Canadians on their election. Too bad it took 12 years for them to realize that the liberals were only harming Canada and that it was time for a change.
[/quote]
Canadians were mad at the Conservatives because last time they were in power, Mulrooney promised to lower taxes.  When he was elected, what did he do?  He doubled sales tax by adding 7% GST in addition to the 7% PST we already paied. 

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg143185#msg143185 date=1138242298]
I believe now we will have a better relationship between Canada and the United States, this should help both countries when it comes to boarder protection and the war against terrorism.
[/quote]
I think we were doing fine with our relationship.  If you want us to FOLLOW the US, which is what our Conservatives will do, that's a different story..

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg143185#msg143185 date=1138242298]
Just a note to those that do not know, Canadian conservatives are not like the conservatives in the United States. I would consider Canadian conservatives to be like very moderate conservatives here in the United States.
[/quote]
I agree.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13946.msg143185#msg143185 date=1138242298]
Rule/iago - You guys still fail to dispute everything your fellow Canadian said about Canada in that audio clip and as for healthcare, let me use this analogy:

You have 2 identical WoW servers, one server has 10,000 people connecting to it the other has only 10 people connecting to it. What server do you think people are going to point their finger at and scream that it's slow?

My point is that in the United States our healthcare system serves much more people than your healthcare system in Canada. You can't say that your healthcare system is better or worse because we can not know unless you have it serve as many patients as our healthcare system. As far as we know, the healthcare system in the United States can and does serve much more people then your healthcare system.
[/quote]
It serves a lot more people, and you also have a lot more people to do the serving, and a lot more people to pay the tax if it was public.  I don't see why it wouldn't scale...

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg143178#msg143178 date=1138240947]
[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg143173#msg143173 date=1138240705]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg142928#msg142928 date=1138076604]
At least conservatives only have a minority, they need liberals on their side to do anything.
[/quote]

Actually, no, the Conservatives only require the support of NDP and IND in order to achieve 50%, if the Liberals also achieve 50% with BQ support, the decision will be in the hands of the Speaker, generally he sides with the party in power.
[/quote]

You're right, I realized that after. At least Liberal and NDP tend to go the same way. So the only way to really screw us is to get BQ support.
[/quote]

Actually no, NDP usually stay with the Conservatives.

EDIT

[quote]Canadians were mad at the Conservatives because last time they were in power, Mulrooney promised to lower taxes.  When he was elected, what did he do?  He doubled sales tax by adding 7% GST in addition to the 7% PST we already paied. [/quote]

Haha, Mulrooney was in office a long time ago and a lot has changed since then. Plus, are you telling me that the Liberals kept all their promises and didn't fuck up?

[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg143189#msg143189 date=1138243262]
Actually no, NDP usually stay with the Conservatives.
[/quote]

Hmm, I don't know much about politics, so I was going off what somebody told me. 

But it doesn't make sense (to me) for the democratic party to follow conservatives.  But this IS Canada, so who knows?

[quote author=iago link=topic=13946.msg143191#msg143191 date=1138243319]
[quote author=Akamas link=topic=13946.msg143189#msg143189 date=1138243262]
Actually no, NDP usually stay with the Conservatives.
[/quote]

Hmm, I don't know much about politics, so I was going off what somebody told me.

But it doesn't make sense (to me) for the democratic party to follow conservatives. But this IS Canada, so who knows?
[/quote]

In this election, they supported the Conservative party because if they didn't they'd look bad for supporting theifs (Liberals).

Although, you're right, a lot of their promises are closer to the Liberals.