http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/index.html

Sucks to be the families of those 'people', must be hard to find out that your mom & dad/grandparents weren't real.

Typical left-wing propaganda.  Mass murderers didn't actually commit murder; those people never really existed.  Hitler, Sadaam -- they're both angelic.

Actually, I think it is UBER far right wing BS.  That Iranian dude is HARDCORE fundamentalistic in his ways (women are 2nd class people, America is ruing the world with our ideas of freedom, etc)

Hmm, does anybody here personally know somebody who was killed in the holocaust?  Or, is somebody here directly related to somebody who was killed?

Is it absolutely impossible that the holocaust was fake?  Probably.  But I'd like to see the evidence first or second-hand, not a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend :)

[quote author=iago link=topic=13518.msg137683#msg137683 date=1134601039]
Hmm, does anybody here personally know somebody who was killed in the holocaust?  Or, is somebody here directly related to somebody who was killed?

Is it absolutely impossible that the holocaust was fake?  Probably.  But I'd like to see the evidence first or second-hand, not a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend :)
[/quote]

The answer is yes. If you want to see the evidence you need to do something about it. Go to a holocaust museum. Do some research.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg137696#msg137696 date=1134604836]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13518.msg137683#msg137683 date=1134601039]
Hmm, does anybody here personally know somebody who was killed in the holocaust?  Or, is somebody here directly related to somebody who was killed?

Is it absolutely impossible that the holocaust was fake?  Probably.  But I'd like to see the evidence first or second-hand, not a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend :)
[/quote]

The answer is yes. If you want to see the evidence you need to do something about it. Go to a holocaust museum. Do some research.
[/quote]Or open your eyes...there have been numerous things on the history channel, the discovery channel, & other misc channels.  I'm sure you learned about it in school, & if you didn't maybe you should've gone to a halfway decent school that teaches kids something

I went to the school of hard knocks nigga.

[quote author=MrRaza link=topic=13518.msg137708#msg137708 date=1134606735]
I went to the school of hard knocks nigga.
[/quote]lol.  Wait, TECHNICALLY I'm not sure what that is.  Is that east side or west side?

Ok great, all of you pointed me at indirect links that could be fabricated (it's not impossible, just very unlikely)

I want to see a direct link.  Somebody who knows somebody who was there. 

http://www.ushmm.org/
http://www.holocaust-history.org/
http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/blholocaust.htm
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/
http://www.holocaustcenter.org/

http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00044.cfm
http://www.archives.gov/research/holocaust/records-and-research/
http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/hol.htm
http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/wie0bio-1
etc...

My great-grandmother.

My grandad on my mom's side saw a concetration camp...forgot about that.

He also took a few things off a dead German.  A luger & some sort of rifle, both of which were stolen :(

I wonder what some of these guys are thinking when they do things like this. Idiots.

I don't know about you but this interested me:

[quote]
"If you have burned the Jews, why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel," Ahmadinejad said.

"Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?"
[/quote]

Anyone know the logical reason why this happened? (providing there is one)
Just made me wonder, I can't remember why we cut a piece of palestine for the holocaust victims.

[quote author=MyndFyre link=topic=13518.msg137678#msg137678 date=1134600199]
Typical left-wing propaganda.  Mass murderers didn't actually commit murder; those people never really existed.  Hitler, Sadaam -- they're both angelic.
[/quote]

Gasp. How on earth is this "typical left-wing propaganda"? It couldn't possible be further from it.

Israel is the holy land, that's where the Jews wanted to be as I hear it

[quote author=rabbit link=topic=13518.msg137724#msg137724 date=1134608875]
http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00044.cfm
http://www.archives.gov/research/holocaust/records-and-research/
http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/hol.htm
http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/wie0bio-1
etc...
[/quote]

That's exactly NOT what I asked for.  But thanks for playing! 

[quote author=Shout link=topic=13518.msg137728#msg137728 date=1134609473]
My great-grandmother.
[/quote]
That, on the other hand, is.  Thank you, I now feel better. 

Let "Reverend Joe" let you all know why, IMO, Israel shouldn't be moved to the US (heh, that's a funny idea =p).

Israel is where it is, because thats where it was meant to be. Where was the first man created? Israel. (Or Judea, or Egypt, I don't know). But it wasn't the US, I win!

Iraq.

First sign of religion is Shandidar cave in Iraq, too

I thought the earliest people were in Africa?

Does the Bible, or some historically accurate text actually say where the holy land is? 

[quote author=MrRaza link=topic=13518.msg137745#msg137745 date=1134614200]
I wonder what some of these guys are thinking when they do things like this. Idiots.
[/quote]

Probablly "Gee, I wonder what will get me on cnn"

Iago sounds like the education in Canada is very poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution_of_the_Jewish_Question

First people, I believe, are found in Africa.  First civilizations are found in Iraq(ish).

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg137816#msg137816 date=1134669045]
iago sounds like the education in Canada is very poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution_of_the_Jewish_Question
[/quote]

I live in Ontario, It's not the greatest. The teachers bitch and its incredibily expensive to go to school.

The Holocaust was fake.  It was a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers who run the world to create a physical presence for the Jews.  Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" involved removing the Jews from Germany, not killing them.  There is absolutely no evidence that any sort of Holocaust actually occured on the scale that the Jews claim.  6 million dead?  I don't think so.  I don't recall seeing 6 million skeletons uncovered all stamped with "This jew killed by Nazis as part of the Holocaust."  I mean, when you really get down to it, there's not much support for any of the Jewish claims regarding what happened.

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg137746#msg137746 date=1134614907]
Anyone know the logical reason why this happened? (providing there is one)
Just made me wonder, I can't remember why we cut a piece of palestine for the holocaust victims.
[/quote]

I think it was a combination of England owning some land down there, jews owning some land, Jerusalem being there, and a lack of foresight. With more foresight, the jews would have been given some land in the US to rebuild a holy city on. And much of the trouble we are seeing today would not have been.

I still think that moving all the jews elsewhere would be the best long-term solution, but it is not likely to happen. The only way I see that happening would be if Iran dropped some nukes on Israel and made the area impossible to live in for hundreds of years. Not the best solution perhaps.

[quote author=iago link=topic=13518.msg137683#msg137683 date=1134601039]
Hmm, does anybody here personally know somebody who was killed in the holocaust?  Or, is somebody here directly related to somebody who was killed?

Is it absolutely impossible that the holocaust was fake?  Probably.  But I'd like to see the evidence first or second-hand, not a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend :)
[/quote]

This is a problem. People who were in the holocaust have been going around trying to spread the message from their personal experience to as many people as possible, but they are dying off now. Soon all stories will be second-hand. And then third-hand. And so on...


[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137700#msg137700 date=1134606106]
Or open your eyes...there have been numerous things on the history channel, the discovery channel, & other misc channels.  I'm sure you learned about it in school, & if you didn't maybe you should've gone to a halfway decent school that teaches kids something
[/quote]

The problem with all of these is that most of what TV shows is fake. The only difference when TV is showing something true and something fake is the label given to it. With special effects, actors, etc, something like the holocaust could be made up and presented to the people as the truth.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg137816#msg137816 date=1134669045]
iago sounds like the education in Canada is very poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution_of_the_Jewish_Question
[/quote]

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.  We spent a significant amount of time studying the holocaust, and literature written during that era.  I was trying to get information, since I don't personally know anybody who was involved in it.  Books and movies can be fake (although it takes a "liberal" to actually realize that what you're being told isn't true).  I'm happy now that I've heard from at least 2 people who have nearly direct experience with it. 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13518.msg137838#msg137838 date=1134679053]
I'm happy now that I've heard from at least 2 people who have nearly direct experience with it. 
[/quote]
Why would the random (and second-hand) opinions of people you don't know serve to convince you that something happened?

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg137843#msg137843 date=1134679566]
Why would the random (and second-hand) opinions of people you don't know serve to convince you that something happened?
[/quote]

Agreed. Though iago may feel he knows these people.

The fact that there are numerous holocaust monuments & museums would convince me.

OH CRAP!...just forgot, my grandma's friend was a German that fled Germany in WWII.  Had an odd American/German name, Mikki or something is what my grandma called her.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137846#msg137846 date=1134679810]
The fact that there are numerous holocaust monuments & museums would convince me.
[/quote]

Ever visit a Star Trek musem? ;)

[quote author=Adron link=topic=13518.msg137847#msg137847 date=1134679897]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137846#msg137846 date=1134679810]
The fact that there are numerous holocaust monuments & museums would convince me.
[/quote]

Ever visit a Star Trek musem? ;)
[/quote]

Star Trek is real!

[quote author=Shout link=topic=13518.msg137858#msg137858 date=1134680335]
[quote author=Adron link=topic=13518.msg137847#msg137847 date=1134679897]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137846#msg137846 date=1134679810]
The fact that there are numerous holocaust monuments & museums would convince me.
[/quote]

Ever visit a Star Trek musem? ;)
[/quote]

Star Trek is real!
[/quote]It is...its a real TV show

[quote author=Adron link=topic=13518.msg137844#msg137844 date=1134679663]
[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg137843#msg137843 date=1134679566]
Why would the random (and second-hand) opinions of people you don't know serve to convince you that something happened?
[/quote]

Agreed. Though iago may feel he knows these people.
[/quote]

I trust people I know here (well, Shout anyway) aren't going to be lying. 

[quote author=Shout link=topic=13518.msg137858#msg137858 date=1134680335]
Star Trek is real!
[/quote]

No; it WILL BE real!

Strek Trek is real now...it was a real tv show ;)

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg137830#msg137830 date=1134675514]
The Holocaust was fake.  It was a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers who run the world to create a physical presence for the Jews.  Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" involved removing the Jews from Germany, not killing them.  There is absolutely no evidence that any sort of Holocaust actually occured on the scale that the Jews claim.  6 million dead?  I don't think so.  I don't recall seeing 6 million skeletons uncovered all stamped with "This jew killed by Nazis as part of the Holocaust."  I mean, when you really get down to it, there's not much support for any of the Jewish claims regarding what happened.
[/quote]

Those bankers must be some persuasive story tellers, I highly doubt it. While the overall number may be skewed to a certain extent, I am sure it's in the ballpark as far as how many people died due to the Nazi's including Gipsies, Homosexuals, and others (I can't remember). Of course you don't recall seeing 6 skeletons, weren't lots of them burnt? Also I highly doubt many of the films made showing massacred jews are fake or digitally spoofed. Good lord man open your eyes. I find it hard to believe that the survivors spread across the world entered some boot camp that explained how to make up stories.

Username is just someone from here posting stuff no one believes to get us to talk, no one can be that idiotic.

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg137878#msg137878 date=1134684540]
[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg137830#msg137830 date=1134675514]
The Holocaust was fake.  It was a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers who run the world to create a physical presence for the Jews.  Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" involved removing the Jews from Germany, not killing them.  There is absolutely no evidence that any sort of Holocaust actually occured on the scale that the Jews claim.  6 million dead?  I don't think so.  I don't recall seeing 6 million skeletons uncovered all stamped with "This jew killed by Nazis as part of the Holocaust."  I mean, when you really get down to it, there's not much support for any of the Jewish claims regarding what happened.
[/quote]

Those bankers must be some persuasive story tellers, I highly doubt it. While the overall number may be skewed to a certain extent, I am sure it's in the ballpark as far as how many people died due to the Nazi's including Gipsies, Homosexuals, and others (I can't remember). Of course you don't recall seeing 6 skeletons, weren't lots of them burnt? Also I highly doubt many of the films made showing massacred jews are fake or digitally spoofed. Good lord man open your eyes. I find it hard to believe that the survivors spread across the world entered some boot camp that explained how to make up stories.
[/quote]Schindler's List looked pretty real, but it wasn't, now was it?  I'm sure you can provide me with evidence attesting to the authenticity of these alleged videos.  And maybe I find it hard to believe that 6 million Jews were massacred.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137880#msg137880 date=1134684879]
Username is just someone from here posting stuff no one believes to get us to talk, no one can be that idiotic.
[/quote]How typical of you, CrAz3D.  Someone posts a logical argument, asks for evidence to support your side of things, but you'd rather insult them than address it because it doesn't fit your view of the world.  Nice going, fascist.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=13518.msg137938#msg137938 date=1134700147]
My uncle (who was sent to Auchwitz) died recently. He saw people murdered in droves, and often withdrew from reality to escape the pain.
[/quote]
Withdrew from reality?  He sounds like a schizophrenic...  You know, those people have hallucinations and delusions of persecution.  So, you know, I'm just wondering where your PROOF is hiding.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=13518.msg137938#msg137938 date=1134700147]
Don't give me that shit about Jews not being massacred. It's world history, and people of every nationality, religion, and culture have attested to this fact. No conspiracy theories, please.
[/quote]
You know, it turns out that everyone used to believe the world was flat.  They also believed the sun revolved around the earth.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that just because people believe it to be true doesn't make it true.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg137917#msg137917 date=1134692618]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137880#msg137880 date=1134684879]
Username is just someone from here posting stuff no one believes to get us to talk, no one can be that idiotic.
[/quote]How typical of you, CrAz3D.  Someone posts a logical argument, asks for evidence to support your side of things, but you'd rather insult them than address it because it doesn't fit your view of the world.  Nice going, fascist.
[/quote]
"Username" may be taking the obviously losing side of this argument (even I avoided it this time around :)), but he has a good point there :P

[quote]You know, it turns out that everyone used to believe the world was flat. They also believed the sun revolved around the earth. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that just because people believe it to be true doesn't make it true.
[/quote]
You know those people were stupid though right? And they also thought the earth was supported by 2-4 elephants.


I believe the holocaust is true because germany admitted to it. So did the leaders(the ones who didnt commit suicide with a cyanide pill). And I've read enough books on the nazi holocaust to believe it anyway. Your arguments are pointless.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=13518.msg137945#msg137945 date=1134703431]
Sick faggot, making personal attacks against my uncle. Fuck you.

He withdrew to protect himself from the images of horror and pain he witnessed. You're a fucking asshole. Not everyone believed the world was flat,  Pliny the Elder for one.
[/quote]You need to settle down.  We're trying to discuss things here with logic, not with insults.

Clearly you missed the point of the analogy.  I tried to clear it up, but here it is again: Just because most people believe something to be true does not mean it is true.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13518.msg137948#msg137948 date=1134704989]
You know those people were stupid though right? And they also thought the earth was supported by 2-4 elephants.[/quote]You would have to be pretty stupid to think that this is as far as human knowledge will get.  In a thousand years, we will seem stupid by comparison.  Anyway, this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13518.msg137948#msg137948 date=1134704989]
I believe the holocaust is true because germany admitted to it. So did the leaders(the ones who didnt commit suicide with a cyanide pill). And I've read enough books on the nazi holocaust to believe it anyway. Your arguments are pointless.
[/quote]No, my arguments are logical.  All I see in your post is "I believe, I believe."  Sorry, but history isn't religion.  You don't get to believe anything into existence.  We're talking PROOF that the Holocaust actually occurred, not your irrational beliefs.

[quote]You would have to be pretty stupid to think that this is as far as human knowledge will get.  In a thousand years, we will seem stupid by comparison.  Anyway, this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.[/quote]

In a thousand years the planet will be destroyed. Reasons are obvious.

[quote]No, my arguments are logical.  All I see in your post is "I believe, I believe."  Sorry, but history isn't religion. [/quote]

My "beliefs" are based on facts that actually took place in history. Believing doesn't necessarily mean religion, thats stupidity on your part.

[quote] You don't get to believe anything into existence.  We're talking PROOF that the Holocaust actually occurred, not your irrational beliefs.
[/quote]

Why is this even in discussion? You're stupid comments arent interesting, and so far you havent PROVEN anything except " I believe " it might've not happened.

In other words, you're the one lost in the woods.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13518.msg137951#msg137951 date=1134706049]
In a thousand years the planet will be destroyed. Reasons are obvious.[/quote]You seem to have a penchant for making claims you can't back up.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13518.msg137951#msg137951 date=1134706049]
I've posted once?[/quote]I have no idea what you're talking about...

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13518.msg137951#msg137951 date=1134706049]And my "beliefs" are based on facts that actually took place in history. Believing doesn't necessarily mean religion, thats stupidity on your part.[/quote]You say what you believe is based on fact, but you've still failed to offer up any PROOF of those facts.  And as much as I'd like to waste my time trying to explain to you what an analogy is, I just don't think it'd sink in.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13518.msg137951#msg137951 date=1134706049]Why is this even in discussion? You're stupid comments arent interesting, and so far you havent PROVEN anything except " I believe " it might've not happened.

In other words, you're the one lost in the woods.
[/quote]I've got as much proof as anyone here that my version is the correct one.  Instead of mindlessly insulting me, how about using some sort of rational argument to make your case?

#1 Yet yours is theory.

#2 Was an error which I corrected. You've just been at it for a while. Think hard retard

#3 I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone on this forum. Duh.

#4 Your version? Were you there? Exactly, shut the fuck up.

Prove I'm a facist

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137957#msg137957 date=1134707670]
Prove I'm a facist
[/quote]Brilliant work, CrAz3D, changing the subject for the win.  Let's stick to the topic at hand.  If you feel the need to start a "Prove I'm fascist" thread, feel free to do it elsewhere.

Wow at all the personal attacks.  This is just pathetic, the only person whose done a halfway decent job convincing me he's right is Username, and his side is ridiculous!  Somebody come up with something better than "fuck you," maybe, so I can go back to believing what I am pretty sure is right?

This person reminds me of Invert.

Ignorant to other peoples opinons.
Selfish.

j/p!

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg137963#msg137963 date=1134708325]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137957#msg137957 date=1134707670]
Prove I'm a facist
[/quote]Brilliant work, CrAz3D, changing the subject for the win.  Let's stick to the topic at hand.  If you feel the need to start a "Prove I'm fascist" thread, feel free to do it elsewhere.
[/quote]https://davnit.net/bnet/vL/index.php?topic=13545.0


I believe that the overwhelming majority of people that are educated in large historical events will say that the Holocaust was real & horrible

& as a side note, I move we burn Username in an oven & tell his mother, if he eve has one, that he never really existed.

I would like to know who Username is.  I'm guess its someone that is a regular here.

Its Invert!

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13518.msg137973#msg137973 date=1134709606]
& as a side note, I move we burn Username in an oven & tell his mother, if he eve has one, that he never really existed.
[/quote]

Ah, now you've convinced everybody that you're right! 

I should say again, I believe CrAz3D's (and most normal people's side).. but you guys suck at defending your beliefs :)


<edit> I should also mention, I talked to Username privately today, and, although I've known him for years, he's not a regular poster on these forums. 

Are you people serious?  I know a few different Holocaust survivors.  They are friends of my family.  Some of the stories they tell...you can't make stuff up like that.  It's scary, sick stuff.

One of them was stationed in Auschwitz, and told me a story about a face to face encounter with the Angel of Death himself...he said the look in the man's eyes was enough to chill your blood, completely devoid of emotion and feeling.

Oh, and his wife and children were sent to the gas chambers right after that.

Don't tell me this shit isn't real.  I would love to see you listen to this man's story and see how telling it effects him even 40+ years after the fact and then say to his face that it was a fake.

You people make me sick.

He wants proof, NOT stories, since anybody could make up stories.

I'm not calling your friend a liar, but I guarantee that won't satisfy Username and his sick twisted world.

[quote author=Newby link=topic=13518.msg138014#msg138014 date=1134744389]
He wants proof, NOT stories, since anybody could make up stories.

I'm not calling your friend a liar, but I guarantee that won't satisfy Username and his sick twisted world.
[/quote]Pretty much.  If by virtue of the fact that it's emotionally compelling story, then Romeo and Juliet must be true as well.  Just because someone can speak with horror in their eyes doesn't mean what they're saying is truth.

You speak the truth, but why would somebody lie about his wife and children being executed?  He has not gained nor has he tried to gain any reparations from the holocaust, so what's his motivation?

What you fail/refuse to accept into your neo-nazi dogma is that there were actual laws passed in nazi germany and other countries that led to the arrest and imprisonment of millions of jews due to so called "racial crimes."  This involved herding millions of people into these concentration camps where a vast majority of them died from disease and/or malnutrition alone.  The mass murders were just icing on the cake.

Images from concentration camps:

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Belzec01.jpg[/img]

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Maidan02.jpg[/img]

Loading bodies into the cremation pits:

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Pit.jpg[/img]

If you can read German (I can - if you can't, just enter the text into a translator)...this is a letter from one of the nazi officials running Auschwitz that specifies the number of jews cremated that day at over 4,000:

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Furn_cap.jpg[/img]

A report filed directly to Hitler, listing the number of Jews murdered in the Soviet Union by nazi soldiers from August-November of 1942:

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Report01.jpg[/img]

Children that have been "experimented" on by Josef Mengle:

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/MedExp01.jpg[/img]

Dismembered body parts and bodies of people "experimented" on by Josef Mengle:

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/MedExp03.jpg[/img]

Teeth and dental work removed from jews:

[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Teeth.jpg[/img]




Disclaimer:  I am not a Jew.  I have nothing to gain from this.  Your comments are simply RIDICULOUS enough to warrant this.

Sweet!  In insgesant, there were 1337.  You can't plan something like that!

Ironically enough, there is a thing on Hitler on the History Channel right now. 

Hitler's will, part of it, was still full of hatred for the Jews.  He didn't explain anything in it

I've seen all this in the book "Nazi: Holocaust". Which isn't a book, more like pictures and descriptions about the whole war, and the jews.

Its not a book made by one person, more like a hystorical soiciety.

Both my great grandparents on both sides of my family were killed at age 9.... wait a minute...

[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=13518.msg138019#msg138019 date=1134747833]
What you fail/refuse to accept into your neo-nazi dogma is that there were actual laws passed in nazi germany and other countries that led to the arrest and imprisonment of millions of jews due to so called "racial crimes."  This involved herding millions of people into these concentration camps where a vast majority of them died from disease and/or malnutrition alone.   The mass murders were just icing on the cake.[/quote]They did, huh?  Ok, once again, where are the bodies stamped with "This Jew killed in a concentration camp."?  The last person to argue that suggested that they were burned.  That's awfully convenient if you want to convince the world that a bunch of people died without providing any physical evidence for the fact.

[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=13518.msg138019#msg138019 date=1134747833]
Images from concentration camps:[/quote]Great emotional appeal, but you know what?  It looks exactly of a scene from Schindler's List.  Wait a minute...  Could it be that someone could reproduce film or paper evidence for an event that never actually occured?  [sarcasm]No...  That's impossible...[/sarcasm]

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138047#msg138047 date=1134763113]
[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=13518.msg138019#msg138019 date=1134747833]
What you fail/refuse to accept into your neo-nazi dogma is that there were actual laws passed in nazi germany and other countries that led to the arrest and imprisonment of millions of jews due to so called "racial crimes."  This involved herding millions of people into these concentration camps where a vast majority of them died from disease and/or malnutrition alone.  The mass murders were just icing on the cake.[/quote]They did, huh?  Ok, once again, where are the bodies stamped with "This Jew killed in a concentration camp."?  The last person to argue that suggested that they were burned.  That's awfully convenient if you want to convince the world that a bunch of people died without providing any physical evidence for the fact.

[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=13518.msg138019#msg138019 date=1134747833]
Images from concentration camps:[/quote]Great emotional appeal, but you know what?  It looks exactly of a scene from Schindler's List.  Wait a minute...  Could it be that someone could reproduce film or paper evidence for an event that never actually occured?  [sarcasm]No...  That's impossible...[/sarcasm]
[/quote]

Since the posts here are mad, the topic has greatly shifted back and forth but to address my stance one again, thank you for bringing it back up when I came back to read this thread.

It is awfully convient I must admit, however most pictures that can be found COULD be verifiably proven that the pictures (such as those DM showed) are REAL, not spoofed. I also think it's rather convient of you to say where is the label of "This Jew killed in a concentration camp." It's rather hard to prove such a thing through forum posts don't you think? Additionally I see no evidence of your own that leads us or anyone for that matter that your theory is even REMOTELY correct, at least the people that are disagreeing with you here have (Relatives, Pictures, etc.) You claimed there wasn't any physical evidence however you're wrong, there is LOTS of evidence. Things get more murky over the years especially with improved technology however you can't expect thousands of people spread across the world to tell stories about something that may not have happened. I find it fairly humorous that the only people saying it wasn't real, are people like the Iranian president and other antisemites. Somehow I believe you're just playing the devil's advocate role ;)

It's true that we could all be facing the same ignorance of the europeans that thought the world is flat however at least we have more evidence then a simple assumption or "theory." (in your case) Once again, I find it hard to believe that there are thousands of ridiculously great liars among the population who were victims or witnesses to such a horrific act.

(Also I have my money on who I think it is :P, I guessed it on the first post)

haha what kind of proof do you want they show you proof and you question it's validity. How about seeing some proof that it was planned as opposed to us giving you proof that it did happen. I really think it's well accepted it's happened so that puts us at the top of the hill and you at the bottom trying to defend your point.

I really don't think a coverup this big can occur especially since it's taught in almost every school in the united states and most likely everywhere since most people here (those who are from other countries) seem to be greatly educated on the subject.

So you're saying every single Jew who has had someone die due to the holocaust is a liar? If you want proof perhaps talk to them and they will tell you, hell how much more proof do you want other than they didn't live?

[sarcasm]
Wait that's probably made up by them right too?
[/sarcasm]

Username was raped by his father. If you do not think this is true I want to see proof that this is not true.

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]
Since the posts here are mad, the topic has greatly shifted back and forth but to address my stance one again, thank you for bringing it back up when I came back to read this thread.

It is awfully convient I must admit, however most pictures that can be found COULD be verifiably proven that the pictures (such as those DM showed) are REAL, not spoofed.[/quote]How do you plan on proving it?

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]
I also think it's rather convient of you to say where is the label of "This Jew killed in a concentration camp." It's rather hard to prove such a thing through forum posts don't you think? [/quote]So because there's no evidence, we should just accept it as true?

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]Additionally I see no evidence of your own that leads us or anyone for that matter that your theory is even REMOTELY correct, at least the people that are disagreeing with you here have (Relatives, Pictures, etc.) You claimed there wasn't any physical evidence however you're wrong, there is LOTS of evidence.[/quote]Like what?  That's all I'm asking.  What evidence do you have?

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138063#msg138063 date=1134772436]
Username was raped by his father. If you do not think this is true I want to see proof that this is not true.
[/quote]Yeah, because changing the subject always makes you right.  Go play with CrAz3D.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138065#msg138065 date=1134772806]
Yeah, because changing the subject always makes you right.  Go play with CrAz3D.
[/quote]

You just say that because you want to cover up the fact that you were raped by your dad!

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138065#msg138065 date=1134772806]
[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]
Since the posts here are mad, the topic has greatly shifted back and forth but to address my stance one again, thank you for bringing it back up when I came back to read this thread.

It is awfully convient I must admit, however most pictures that can be found COULD be verifiably proven that the pictures (such as those DM showed) are REAL, not spoofed.[/quote]How do you plan on proving it?

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]
I also think it's rather convient of you to say where is the label of "This Jew killed in a concentration camp." It's rather hard to prove such a thing through forum posts don't you think? [/quote]So because there's no evidence, we should just accept it as true?
[/quote]

If this was presented back when the halocaust was first looked into it would have been a good argument but now that it is accepted as being true regardless people are going to want YOU to prove that THEY are wrong not them proving that they are right because according to them and the world they already are.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138067#msg138067 date=1134773068]
You just say that because you want to cover up the fact that you were raped by your dad!
[/quote]No, Invert, I say that because the thread title discusses the killing of 6 million imaginary Jews.  But, if it makes you feel better, I was raped by my dad.  Now you can get back on topic.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138065#msg138065 date=1134772806]
[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]
Since the posts here are mad, the topic has greatly shifted back and forth but to address my stance one again, thank you for bringing it back up when I came back to read this thread.

It is awfully convient I must admit, however most pictures that can be found COULD be verifiably proven that the pictures (such as those DM showed) are REAL, not spoofed.[/quote]How do you plan on proving it?

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]
I also think it's rather convient of you to say where is the label of "This Jew killed in a concentration camp." It's rather hard to prove such a thing through forum posts don't you think? [/quote]So because there's no evidence, we should just accept it as true?

[quote author=Networks link=topic=13518.msg138059#msg138059 date=1134771036]Additionally I see no evidence of your own that leads us or anyone for that matter that your theory is even REMOTELY correct, at least the people that are disagreeing with you here have (Relatives, Pictures, etc.) You claimed there wasn't any physical evidence however you're wrong, there is LOTS of evidence.[/quote]Like what?  That's all I'm asking.  What evidence do you have?

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138063#msg138063 date=1134772436]
Username was raped by his father. If you do not think this is true I want to see proof that this is not true.
[/quote]Yeah, because changing the subject always makes you right.  Go play with CrAz3D.
[/quote]

meh you're just running circles and it seems you're caught in a tornado you can't be expelled from. Stop answering questions asked with questions of your own, at least attempt to answer ones on the plate. Of course I can't provide substantial evidence since anything I would put you would say is fake. No point in arguing a lost cause on a forum where nothing can be proven (even/especially your claims). I'd say the argument is dead.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=13518.msg138074#msg138074 date=1134774939]
There is no way to debate with someone as unreasonable as Username is: he's proven that he cares not for first-hand accounts, even in the face of real evidence. It's impossible to argue with someone even with the existence of physical proof.
[/quote]

With further discussion with Username, I admit it's probable that the holocuast did not happen, however this probability is extremely small. The evidence we have is the only evidence we can use to support our claim that the event did happen so whether he uses it to question our beliefs is an argument that can't be won since we cannot prove that the evidence used to prove our statements is actually legit.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think things weren't real. How do you even know if George Bush is real? Have you seen him? If you have great, it validates your claim that he exists however for the rest of us it doesn't prove anything. Just makes you think that's all.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138071#msg138071 date=1134773944]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138067#msg138067 date=1134773068]
You just say that because you want to cover up the fact that you were raped by your dad!
[/quote]No, Invert, I say that because the thread title discusses the killing of 6 million imaginary Jews.  But, if it makes you feel better, I was raped by my dad.  Now you can get back on topic.
[/quote]

If it makes you feel better, you are absolutely right that the holocaust never happened and it was all made up by the Jewish bankers. This should be the end of this discussion.

So we have figured out that the holocaust never happened and you were raped by your father.

Point: Anyone can make a ridicules claim without any proof while dismissing all the logical explanations.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138086#msg138086 date=1134775651]
If it makes you feel better, you are absolutely right that the holocaust never happened and it was all made up by the Jewish bankers. This should be the end of this discussion.

So we have figured out that the holocaust never happened and you were raped by your father.

Point: Anyone can make a ridicules claim without any proof while dismissing all the logical explanations.
[/quote]Except that you didn't offer any logical explanation.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138094#msg138094 date=1134776116]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138086#msg138086 date=1134775651]
If it makes you feel better, you are absolutely right that the holocaust never happened and it was all made up by the Jewish bankers. This should be the end of this discussion.

So we have figured out that the holocaust never happened and you were raped by your father.

Point: Anyone can make a ridicules claim without any proof while dismissing all the logical explanations.
[/quote]Except that you didn't offer any logical explanation.
[/quote]

Haha, and you did? Let's start from the top!

You said:
[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg137830#msg137830 date=1134675514]
The Holocaust was fake.  It was a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers who run the world to create a physical presence for the Jews.  Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" involved removing the Jews from Germany, not killing them.  There is absolutely no evidence that any sort of Holocaust actually occured on the scale that the Jews claim.  6 million dead?  I don't think so.  I don't recall seeing 6 million skeletons uncovered all stamped with "This jew killed by Nazis as part of the Holocaust."  I mean, when you really get down to it, there's not much support for any of the Jewish claims regarding what happened.
[/quote]

Please provide us with proof that "The Holocaust was fake." and that "It was a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers who run the world to create a physical presence for the Jews." and that "Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" involved removing the Jews from Germany, not killing them."

You made all those statements. So to not make yourself look like an idiot that just blurts out things without any proof you should provide us the proof to back your statements up!

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138099#msg138099 date=1134776511]
Please provide us with proof that "The Holocaust was fake." and that "It was a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers who run the world to create a physical presence for the Jews." and that "Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" involved removing the Jews from Germany, not killing them."

You made all those statements. So to not make yourself look like an idiot that just blurts out things without any proof you should provide us the proof to back your statements up!
[/quote]Had you not completely missed the point, you would realize that what I said was just as substantiated as anything you said.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138101#msg138101 date=1134776930]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138099#msg138099 date=1134776511]
Please provide us with proof that "The Holocaust was fake." and that "It was a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers who run the world to create a physical presence for the Jews." and that "Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" involved removing the Jews from Germany, not killing them."

You made all those statements. So to not make yourself look like an idiot that just blurts out things without any proof you should provide us the proof to back your statements up!
[/quote]Had you not completely missed the point, you would realize that what I said was just as substantiated as anything you said.
[/quote]

Out of all the people that were arguing with you I am the only one that got the point.
With my statement for you to provide proof I am forcing you to come into the light with the true purpose for your comments.

So let's move on. Please provide the proof behind your statements.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138102#msg138102 date=1134777249]
Out of all the people that were arguing with you I am the only one that got the point.
With my statement for you to provide proof I am forcing you to come into the light with the true purpose for your comments.

So let's move on. Please provide the proof behind your statements.
[/quote]As I explained in the last post, I don't have any more proof than you do.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138103#msg138103 date=1134777569]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138102#msg138102 date=1134777249]
Out of all the people that were arguing with you I am the only one that got the point.
With my statement for you to provide proof I am forcing you to come into the light with the true purpose for your comments.

So let's move on. Please provide the proof behind your statements.
[/quote]As I explained in the last post, I don't have any more proof than you do.
[/quote]

Excellent, now we are getting somewhere...

So since you know that you have no proof to back your statements up, what was the reason for you to make them?

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138106#msg138106 date=1134778158]
Excellent, now we are getting somewhere...

So since you know that you have no proof to back your statements up, what was the reason for you to make them?
[/quote]For the 3rd time, to demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as yours.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138108#msg138108 date=1134778866]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138106#msg138106 date=1134778158]
Excellent, now we are getting somewhere...

So since you know that you have no proof to back your statements up, what was the reason for you to make them?
[/quote]For the 3rd time, to demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as yours.
[/quote]


How did you demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as my comments?

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138109#msg138109 date=1134779087]
How did you demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as my comments?
[/quote]Because you offered no real evidence and neither have I.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138110#msg138110 date=1134779236]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138109#msg138109 date=1134779087]
How did you demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as my comments?
[/quote]Because you offered no real evidence and neither have I.
[/quote]

I did not ask you why, I asked you how. Pay attention!

That is how they're just as arbitrary.  If you need to know what arbitrary means, feel free to consult dictionary.com.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138112#msg138112 date=1134779786]
That is how they're just as arbitrary.  If you need to know what arbitrary means, feel free to consult dictionary.com.
[/quote]

I know what the word arbitrary means. You are still avoiding my question.

Let's try again:
How did you demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as my comments?

Apparently I'm having difficulty simplifying this enough for you, so I'll resort to using a syllogism:

A claim is arbitrary if it is not supported by some form of proof.
Your claim regarding the Holocaust is unsupported by some form of proof.
Therefore, your claim regarding the Holocaust is arbitrary.

Now, we try it again:
A claim is arbitrary if it is not supported by some form of proof.
My claim regarding the Holocaust is unsupported by some form of proof.
Therefore, my claim regarding the Holocaust is arbitrary.

Do you get it now?

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138115#msg138115 date=1134780322]
Apparently I'm having difficulty simplifying this enough for you, so I'll resort to using a syllogism:

A claim is arbitrary if it is not supported by some form of proof.
Your claim regarding the Holocaust is unsupported by some form of proof.
Therefore, your claim regarding the Holocaust is arbitrary.

Now, we try it again:
A claim is arbitrary if it is not supported by some form of proof.
My claim regarding the Holocaust is unsupported by some form of proof.
Therefore, my claim regarding the Holocaust is arbitrary.

Do you get it now?

[/quote]

Thank you but I already know what an arbitrary clam is. It just has nothing to do with my question. I'll help you this time with the bolding.

So let's try this again:
How did you demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as my comments?

Not to be confused with the question that would ask weather or not they were arbitrary. Pay attention!

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138116#msg138116 date=1134780924]
Thank you but I already know what an arbitrary clam is. It just has nothing to do with my question. I'll help you this time with the bolding.

So let's try this again:
How did you demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as my comments?

Not to be confused with the question that would ask weather or not they were arbitrary. Pay attention!
[/quote]Apparently I need to hold your hand through every step.

First, here's the definition of arbitrary.  You'll be needing it.
[quote]ar·bi·trar·y
adj.
Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle [/quote]

The relevant portion of this definition would be Determined by ... whim, and not by ... reason ....

Now, from this, we can conclude that that which is arbitrary is determined by whim and not by reason.  Thus, those things which are arbitrary are unsupported by proof.  Similarly, we can conclude that once a thing has been declared arbitrary, it lacks any sort of substance (or proof, in lay terms), that being counter to the nature of being arbitrary.  From this, we can deduce that there is no way to quantify the degree to which a thing is arbitrary.  Therefore, all things that are arbitrary are equally so.

Now, using this clear reasoning and with every little step present, would you care to repeat your question again, despite the fact that I've answered it multiple times already?

Invert's persistance is admirable.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138117#msg138117 date=1134781552]
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138116#msg138116 date=1134780924]
Thank you but I already know what an arbitrary clam is. It just has nothing to do with my question. I'll help you this time with the bolding.

So let's try this again:
How did you demonstrate that they were just as arbitrary as my comments?

Not to be confused with the question that would ask weather or not they were arbitrary. Pay attention!
[/quote]Apparently I need to hold your hand through every step.

First, here's the definition of arbitrary.  You'll be needing it.
[quote]ar·bi·trar·y
adj.
Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle [/quote]

The relevant portion of this definition would be Determined by ... whim, and not by ... reason ....

Now, from this, we can conclude that that which is arbitrary is determined by whim and not by reason.  Thus, those things which are arbitrary are unsupported by proof.  Similarly, we can conclude that once a thing has been declared arbitrary, it lacks any sort of substance (or proof, in lay terms), that being counter to the nature of being arbitrary.  From this, we can deduce that there is no way to quantify the degree to which a thing is arbitrary.  Therefore, all things that are arbitrary are equally so.

Now, using this clear reasoning and with every little step present, would you care to repeat your question again, despite the fact that I've answered it multiple times already?
[/quote]

Note to you: You are not holding my hand through this. I am forcing you to take this step by step. It's taking some time but you seem willing.

Once again, thank you but I already knew the definition of arbitrary.

Now back to the steps. Your answer is absolutely beautiful because for the 1st time you have answered my question. In "lay terms" your answer was that they are equally arbitrary because both comments do not have proof. I do not need to ask my question again since you have answered it.

So let's continue. We both agree that your comments do not have proof thus making them arbitrary. What we disagree on is that the comments of the people that argue of the existence of the holocaust are arbitrary. Going back in this post most of the comments that were made by the people that argue of the existence of the holocaust were provided with logical explanation on the existence of holocaust. Whether you question the validity of those logical explanations you can not discredit the comments from having logical explanations. Since you can not discredit that there were logical explanations that came with the comments of the existence of the holocaust or the logical explanations themselves using your answer to my question we can now determine that the comments that were made by the people arguing the existence of the holocaust were in fact not arbitrary.

You fail in your pursuit to demonstrating that the comments made about the existence of holocaust were arbitrary with your arbitrary comments.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138127#msg138127 date=1134788626]
So let's continue. We both agree that your comments do not have proof thus making them arbitrary. What we disagree on is that the comments of the people that argue of the existence of the holocaust are arbitrary. Going back in this post most of the comments that were made by the people that argue of the existence of the holocaust were provided with logical explanation on the existence of holocaust.[/quote]I provided exactly as logical an explanation as the one they offered.  I'm still waiting for something that supports yours and their version better than it does mine.
[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138127#msg138127 date=1134788626]
Whether you question the validity of those logical explanations you can not discredit the comments from having logical explanations. Since you can not discredit that there were logical explanations that came with the comments of the existence of the holocaust or the logical explanations themselves using your answer to my question we can now determine that the comments that were made by the people arguing the existence of the holocaust were in fact not arbitrary.
[/quote]What "logical explanations" are these?  There's not any single conclusion that stands out from the evidence presented--unless you're seeing something I'm not.  In which case, you should enlighten me as to this amazing evidence that proves your side of things.

Your version is bias. Its an opinion, in which you think correct, but yet obviously false. You have no proof except your word on what you think happened. A jewish conspiracy...Riiiiiight.

Its been proven that it happened. So shut up already.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138128#msg138128 date=1134789018]
I provided exactly as logical an explanation as the one they offered.
[/quote]

Excuse me! You are now stating that you have provided logical explanations for your arguments. With the statement above you are contradicting yourself after agreeing with me that your statement was arbitrary. Since we both agree that an arbitrary comment is a comment without a logical explanation you seem to be confused because you can't decide whether or not your comment was arbitrary. If you can't decide whether or not your comments were arbitrary how can you make that decision about someone else's comments?

To me the logical explanations that were provided are the links to pictures and documents of historical accounts.

We can get into the meaning of "logical explanation" but that will only lead us to personal opinions.

The bottom line is; I am not here to prove to you of the past existence of the holocaust but to discredit your comments. I have achieved that successfully with your help.

You and I no longer have a disagreement, unless you want to back paddle.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138132#msg138132 date=1134791297]
Excuse me! You are now stating that you have provided logical explanations for your arguments. With the statement above you are contradicting yourself after agreeing with me that your statement was arbitrary. Since we both agree that an arbitrary comment is a comment without a logical explanation you seem to be confused because you can't decide whether or not your comment was arbitrary. If you can't decide whether or not your comments were arbitrary how can you make that decision about someone else's comments?[/quote]Oh goodness, Invert, you need to read more carefully.  I said that I provided exactly as logical an explanation as the one offered--namely one that was completely illogical because it had no support.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138132#msg138132 date=1134791297]
To me the logical explanations that were provided are the links to pictures and documents of historical accounts. [/quote]To me, those are logical evidence supporting the depth of the conspiracy.  Like I said, just as logical.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138132#msg138132 date=1134791297]The bottom line is; I am not here to prove to you of the past existence of the holocaust but to discredit your comments. I have achieved that successfully with your help.[/quote]It helps when you read what you want to read, instead of what I've written.  ;)

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138133#msg138133 date=1134791693]
Oh goodness, Invert, you need to read more carefully.  I said that I provided exactly as logical an explanation as the one offered--namely one that was completely illogical because it had no support.
[/quote]
I read just fine. I consider the logical explanation of comments that support the existence of the holocaust to be logical explanations and since you are comparing them that would mean that you believe that your logical explanations were logical explanations. This brings us back to you contradicting yourself.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138133#msg138133 date=1134791693]To me, those are logical evidence supporting the depth of the conspiracy.  Like I said, just as logical.
[/quote]

To me, those are illogical and the ones that were provided to you were logical. Whether or not they were logical or illogical are they still considered arbitrary?

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138133#msg138133 date=1134791693]
It helps when you read what you want to read, instead of what I've written.  ;)
[/quote]

I read what you write and with my help you agreed with me and wrote that your comments have no proof. This was my goal.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138134#msg138134 date=1134792674]
I read just fine. I consider the logical explanation of comments that support the existence of the holocaust to be logical explanations and since you are comparing them that would mean that you believe that your logical explanations were logical explanations. This brings us back to you contradicting yourself.[/quote]No, I don't think you do.  I was saying that neither had any "logical" value.  The comparison was between 0 and 0.  I'll also take this opportunity to remind you that just because you believe that your evidence supports your side doesn't mean that it actually does.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138134#msg138134 date=1134792674]
To me, those are illogical and the ones that were provided to you were logical. Whether or not they were logical or illogical are they still considered arbitrary?[/quote]Once again, it's all arbitrary until you can provide evidence showing actual proof of one position.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138134#msg138134 date=1134792674]
I read what you write and with my help you agreed with me and wrote that your comments have no proof. This was my goal.
[/quote]Yours have no proof either, which has been the point I've been trying to get across all along.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138135#msg138135 date=1134793177]
No, I don't think you do.  I was saying that neither had any "logical" value.  The comparison was between 0 and 0.  I'll also take this opportunity to remind you that just because you believe that your evidence supports your side doesn't mean that it actually does.
[/quote]
I think I do. To me the comparison was between 1 and 0 where you believe the 1 to be a 0. I'll also take this opportunity to remind you that just because you believe that someone else's evidence does not support their side doesn't mean that it actually doesn't.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138135#msg138135 date=1134793177]Once again, it's all arbitrary until you can provide evidence showing actual proof of one position.
[/quote]

Once again I am not arguing to prove to you that there was a holocaust but that your argument is arbitrary. We seem to agree on that.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138135#msg138135 date=1134793177]
Yours have no proof either, which has been the point I've been trying to get across all along.
[/quote]

What exactly must I prove to you? All I was setting you up for is for you to tell everyone that your comments can not be proven making them arbitrary.

Which you have.

Hes stupid. Ignore him like you ignore me!

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138137#msg138137 date=1134794270]
I think I do. To me the comparison was between 1 and 0 where you believe the 1 to be a 0. I'll also take this opportunity to remind you that just because you believe that someone else's evidence does not support their side doesn't mean that it actually doesn't.[/quote]And I'll once again go back to the very beginning of the argument where I asked for PROOF that your evidence does in fact support your argument.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138137#msg138137 date=1134794270]
Once again I am not arguing to prove to you that there was a holocaust but that your argument is arbitrary. We seem to agree on that.[/quote]And that yours is just as arbitrary.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138137#msg138137 date=1134794270]
What exactly must I prove to you? All I was setting you up for is for you to tell everyone that your comments can not be proven making them arbitrary.[/quote]I never claimed my comments could be proven.  All I've said is that yours can't be.

This is good we are getting somewhere.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138139#msg138139 date=1134794443]
And I'll once again go back to the very beginning of the argument where I asked for PROOF that your evidence does in fact support your argument.
[/quote]

I am unable to provide you with what you would consider proof since I do not know what exact proof you are looking for. I need to know what kind of information would make you believe in the past existence of the holocaust. If I were to provide you with proof without you specifying the exact proof you are looking for I would just have to post the same thing posted by people trying to provide you with proof you don't consider proof.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138139#msg138139 date=1134794443]
And that yours is just as arbitrary.
[/quote]
And what is my argument? I never argued with you about the past existence of the holocaust. I only provided you with my opinions.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138139#msg138139 date=1134794443]
I never claimed my comments could be proven.  All I've said is that yours can't be.
[/quote]
And what were my comments that could not be proven?

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138147#msg138147 date=1134795401]
I am unable to provide you with what you would consider proof since I do not know what exact proof you are looking for. I need to know what kind of information would make you believe in the past existence of the holocaust. If I were to provide you with proof without you specifying the exact proof you are looking for I would just have to post the same thing posted by people trying to provide you with proof you don't consider proof.[/quote]Exactly, you can't provide proof to support the idea that the Holocaust actually occurred.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138147#msg138147 date=1134795401]
And what is my argument? I never argued with you about the past existence of the holocaust. I only provided you with my opinions.[/quote]You're clearly a supporter of people who believe the Holocaust occurred.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138147#msg138147 date=1134795401]
And what were my comments that could not be proven?
[/quote]Yours meaning you all possessive and plural.  In other words, the people whose argument you're supporting tacitly by attempting to find flaws in mine.

Wheres your proof that it didn't occur?


Oh wait you can't.

[quote author=WoOdTroll link=topic=13518.msg138151#msg138151 date=1134796007]
Wheres your proof that it didn't occur?


Oh wait you can't.
[/quote]

Did you even bother to read what he said?

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138139#msg138139 date=1134794443]
I never claimed my comments could be proven.  All I've said is that yours can't be.
[/quote]

Next time, read. He wants [u]YOU[/u] to prove that the Holocaust existed.

You people that are bickering and insulting him are just inflating his ego. Try proving your point instead.

The bottom line:

The vast majority has accepted that there was a Holocaust.  The burden of proof is on YOU, Username, not us.

Even so, I have offered first hand accounts, photographs, and nazi documents.  What more do you require?

[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=13518.msg138157#msg138157 date=1134797809]
The bottom line:

The vast majority has accepted that there was a Holocaust.  The burden of proof is on YOU, Username, not us.[/quote]That's incorrect.  The burden of proof is on the affirmative.  As I stated several pages back, the fact that lots of people believe something does not make it true.
[quote author=DarkMinion link=topic=13518.msg138157#msg138157 date=1134797809]
Even so, I have offered first hand accounts, photographs, and nazi documents.  What more do you require?
[/quote]Proof that those people weren't making it up, proof that those photographs weren't staged, and proof that those documents were actually created by this alleged Nazi group.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138150#msg138150 date=1134795701]
Exactly, you can't provide proof to support the idea that the Holocaust actually occurred.
[/quote]
Right, exactly. Like I said what you consider proof and what I consider proof is not the same thing. Unless you tell me the exact proof you want me to provide I can't prove anything to YOU.
Like DarkMinion said, the majority of the people believe that the proof that is provided is the proof of the past existence of the holocaust the burden falls on you to discredit that proof.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138150#msg138150 date=1134795701]
You're clearly a supporter of people who believe the Holocaust occurred.
[/quote]
Right, so?

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138150#msg138150 date=1134795701]
Yours meaning you all possessive and plural.  In other words, the people whose argument you're supporting tacitly by attempting to find flaws in mine.
[/quote]
The flaw in your argument is that you are not willing to consider any proof that was provided.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138159#msg138159 date=1134800128]
The flaw in your argument is that you are not willing to consider any proof that was provided.
[/quote]That's because your "proof" can easily be explained under any number of theories.  What I would consider proof supports only the theory it is being offered as evidence for.

Newby

how can you explain to some one that something happened, if they choose to think otherwise constantly? Users here have shown pictures, links etc. Now he wants proof of the pictures, and the information. I mean what next? All I said was, back-up what you've said. And he wont because he cant.

This is plain ridiculous. This is like proving god exists to this man or in his case woman. We weren't there to take pictures, and watch the shit first hand, so we take second hand information. However its how accurate it is to the real facts. And so far DM is right. How much more does he require? German troops even admitted to killing jews, and shit what more does he need?

Most people that faced the death penalty for war crimes said "I was ordered to", so that means it occured, if they admit to it. I doubt soldiers would lie, when their life is at stake.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138160#msg138160 date=1134800521]
That's because your "proof" can easily be explained under any number of theories.  What I would consider proof supports only the theory it is being offered as evidence for.
[/quote]

Ok I'm going to have a go at this.
I was told by Hitler that he ordered the killing of all Jews but only managed to kill 6 million Jews. I witnessed personally the killing of all 6 million Jews. The pictures that you were provided with were taken by me personally of the Jews that were killed, before they were killed they told me that they were Jews.

You lie.  I was there, and I saw everything you said not happen.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138163#msg138163 date=1134801591]
You lie.  I was there, and I saw everything you said not happen.
[/quote]

Oh yeah, what color shirt was I wearing?

You weren't there.  In fact, you hadn't been born yet.

Niether were you.


Stick to the damn subject.

[quote author=Username link=topic=13518.msg138166#msg138166 date=1134802422]
You weren't there.  In fact, you hadn't been born yet.
[/quote]

If you did not see me that can only mean that you were not there and that you are lying about everything you are saying now. You are not even real but only a figment of my imagination.

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13518.msg138168#msg138168 date=1134805635]
If you did not see me that can only mean that you were not there and that you are lying about everything you are saying now. You are not even real but only a figment of my imagination.
[/quote]Then it looks pretty dumb for you to be arguing with yourself.

It is not our job to educate Username. The education he seeks can not be provided to him because there is no way to prove or disprove what we call reality.

Now since it has been proven that Username is nothing but a troll I am going to lock this thread.