This is socialism at its best. Hm...Let me remember there is another country that has its panties in a twat when it comes to religion...oh yeah it's the United States. Thanks ACLU!

A woman in her 20s executed by a firing squad after being caught with a Bible. Five Christian church leaders punished by being run over by a steamroller before a crowd of spectators who "cried, screamed out, or fainted when the skulls made a popping sound as they were crushed."

http://www.nysun.com/article/23082

[quote author=Invert link=topic=13284.msg134596#msg134596 date=1132360199]
This is socialism at its best. Hm...Let me remember there is another country that has its panties in a twat when it comes to religion...oh yeah it's the United States. Thanks ACLU!

A woman in her 20s executed by a firing squad after being caught with a Bible. Five Christian church leaders punished by being run over by a steamroller before a crowd of spectators who "cried, screamed out, or fainted when the skulls made a popping sound as they were crushed."

http://www.nysun.com/article/23082
[/quote]

That makes me cringe...

If those damn Christians weren't forcing their views upon others and wreaking havoc and causing problems with everyone else throughout the world, maybe their arrogant asses wouldn't be killed.

America has killed people because of their religion, so I don't quite understand how killing because of religion is a socialist thing.

dxiogmn: Wtf? Not sanctioned by the government or state, anyway.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=13284.msg134612#msg134612 date=1132367307]
dxiogmn: Wtf? Not sanctioned by the government or state, anyway.
[/quote]

Read about the Ghost Dance and the massacre at Wounded Knee.

I read this part:
[quote]These and other "horrifying" violations of human rights and religious freedom in North Korea are reported in a new study by the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, titled "'Thank You, Father Kim Il Sung': Eyewitness Accounts of Severe Violations of Freedom of Thought, Conscience, and Religion in North Korea."[/quote]
And that instantly turned me off of the article.  It's obvious that they're painting events in such a way as to make the country look bad, by showing them in an extremely negative light.  There is no logical reason to refer to the popping skulls unless they were trying to paint an ugly picture, not examine facts.  And isn't the point of having a "new study" to examine facts, not use emotional language to change people's views?  Or do I misunderstand the concept of a "study"?

The problem I have is that Americans are perfectly happy to execute people who do what they consider to be a terrible crime.  Ironically, I think it makes more sense to kill somebody for religion than to kill somebody for killing somebody.  Killing for killing is way too hypocritical in my mind. 

If the US is willing to abolish the death penalty, then they will be in a better position to frown on other countries who instate the death penalty.  The fact that the "free world" considers murder the worst crime is pretty arbitrary, in my mind.  Trying to change religion, which means destroying the fundamentals of birth and death and how life is lived seems like a pretty bad crime too.  Who cares what somebody does in the moral world, these people are ruining it for people for eternity.  Taking 50 years off somebody's life, or ruining the eternity, which is worse?  And I'm not saying that they're right, but I'm saying that killing for religion is at least as arbitrary as killing for killing. 

And don't even get me started on the amount of blood that has spilled because of the Catholic Church, and that is still very much worshipped.  That's a whole other story.

Free thought is very dangerous to a governing body.  America has found a way to discourage free thought without killing people for it, which is why it's such a successful country.  Canada has done the same, for the most part.  We grow up believing that our beliefs are absolutely paramount, and that everybody who thinks differently (like, for example, Iraq and North Korea) are so obviously the enemies.  Why not look at it from their side?  I'm sure they don't enjoy killing people for these reasons, any more than Americans enjoy using the death penalty. 

I had another good point to bring up, but I have totally forgetten it.  Hopefully I'll remember later :)

<edit> here's a good quote:
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13195.msg134591#msg134591 date=1132359018]
That man is scum, you hand me a gun I would shoot that man.
[/quote]

You're willing to kill a man because he killed an animal, which is something that happens every day, but you're against killing somebody because they have the potential to destroy your country and ruin the eternal bliss of his people?  Religion isn't just a belief, it's a way of life, and it's the key to the afterlife.  You aren't concerned about something that is the foundation for people's lives, but you're willing to kill over a dog?  Have you any idea how absolutely hypocritical that is?  This is why I have trouble respecting Americans.  Let me put it bluntly, killing somebody doesn't solve any problems. 

Wait, who am I not killnig that is ruining America?

(I accept killing people.  Some people don't need to live, and yes, that can be for society to decide.)

I'm saying that it is extremely hypocritical to want to kill somebody for killing an animal, but hating somebody for killing for religion. 

Maybe all this murder/animal stuff should be one topic?...if a moderator gets a chance.

Anyways, killing for religion is killing "because you are better than someone else", killing someone cause they killed your animal is punishment/revenge

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13284.msg134693#msg134693 date=1132433748]
Maybe all this murder/animal stuff should be one topic?...if a moderator gets a chance.

Anyways, killing for religion is killing "because you are better than someone else", killing someone cause they killed your animal is punishment/revenge
[/quote]

Isn't killing somebody for murder (animal or people murder) killing "because you are better than someone else" too?  The only difference is that instead of saying that your religion is better, you're saying that your sense or morality is better.  Not much of a difference, if you ask me.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13195.msg134591#msg134591 date=1132359018]
That man is scum, you hand me a gun I would shoot that man.
[/quote]

So primal.

[quote author=iago link=topic=13284.msg134672#msg134672 date=1132420297]
I'm saying that it is extremely hypocritical to want to kill somebody for killing an animal, but hating somebody for killing for religion. 

[/quote]

Whether it's hypocritical or not depends on how you want to spin things. 

Hating someone for killing an animal, and hating someone for killing a person, regardless of the reason, has consistency -- you hate murderers!

[quote author=iago link=topic=13284.msg134645#msg134645 date=1132388826]
I read this part:
[quote]These and other "horrifying" violations of human rights and religious freedom in North Korea are reported in a new study by the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, titled "'Thank You, Father Kim Il Sung': Eyewitness Accounts of Severe Violations of Freedom of Thought, Conscience, and Religion in North Korea."[/quote]
And that instantly turned me off of the article.  It's obvious that they're painting events in such a way as to make the country look bad, by showing them in an extremely negative light.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]
The problem I have is that Americans are perfectly happy to execute people who do what they consider to be a terrible crime.  Ironically, I think it makes more sense to kill somebody for religion than to kill somebody for killing somebody.  Killing for killing is way too hypocritical in my mind.  ... I'm saying that killing for religion is at least as arbitrary as killing for killing. 
[/quote]

wtf? This makes no sense to me.

[quote]
And don't even get me started on the amount of blood that has spilled because of the Catholic Church, and that is still very much worshipped.  That's a whole other story.
[/quote]

The Catholic Church is an entirely different entity than what it once was.

[quote]
Free thought is very dangerous to a governing body.  America has found a way to discourage free thought without killing people for it, which is why it's such a successful country.
[/quote]

I think it's successful because it encourages free thought...and people eventually come to realize that America's ways aren't so bad.

[quote]
Why not look at it from their side?  I'm sure they don't enjoy killing people for these reasons, any more than Americans enjoy using the death penalty. 
[/quote]

Kim Il Sung is intoxicated by power.

I had another good point to bring up, but I have totally forgetten it.  Hopefully I'll remember later :)

[quote]
Let me put it bluntly, killing somebody doesn't solve any problems. 
[/quote]

Sometimes it can...other times it can't.

[quote author=Topaz link=topic=13284.msg134712#msg134712 date=1132444207]
[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13195.msg134591#msg134591 date=1132359018]
That man is scum, you hand me a gun I would shoot that man.
[/quote]

So primal.
[/quote]Primal would be me beating the  man with a club, which I'd do too, so, I guess I would be acting primal.  W/E though, everyone has their "primal state" within themselves

Unfortunately he is right about massacre wounded knee - but that was almost what? 150 years ago?

[quote author=jigsaw link=topic=13284.msg134853#msg134853 date=1132532518]
Unfortunately he is right about massacre wounded knee - but that was almost what? 150 years ago?
[/quote]

Ahh but the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was not passed until 1978. That is quite recent.

[quote] This is socialism at its best[/quote]
I prefer to think of N. Korea as communism at its worst, but to each his own...

[quote author=dxoigmn link=topic=13284.msg134867#msg134867 date=1132540382]
[quote author=jigsaw link=topic=13284.msg134853#msg134853 date=1132532518]
Unfortunately he is right about massacre wounded knee - but that was almost what? 150 years ago?
[/quote]

Ahh but the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was not passed until 1978. That is quite recent.
[/quote]

So before 1978, it was ok to persecute for beliefs? 

[quote author=iago link=topic=13284.msg134884#msg134884 date=1132551442]
[quote author=dxoigmn link=topic=13284.msg134867#msg134867 date=1132540382]
[quote author=jigsaw link=topic=13284.msg134853#msg134853 date=1132532518]
Unfortunately he is right about massacre wounded knee - but that was almost what? 150 years ago?
[/quote]

Ahh but the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was not passed until 1978. That is quite recent.
[/quote]

So before 1978, it was ok to persecute for beliefs? 
[/quote]

Pretty much. Before the 1930s, there were outright bans against traditional Indian ceremonies. Then from the 1930s to 1978, there were some restrictions on ceremonies (i.e. where they can be preformed, usage of certain objects/plants, etc.). It isn't really until 1994 that most of those restrictions are lifted when the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was amended to allow the use of peyote in ceremonies among other things.

[quote author=dxoigmn link=topic=13284.msg134891#msg134891 date=1132556110]
[quote author=iago link=topic=13284.msg134884#msg134884 date=1132551442]
[quote author=dxoigmn link=topic=13284.msg134867#msg134867 date=1132540382]
[quote author=jigsaw link=topic=13284.msg134853#msg134853 date=1132532518]
Unfortunately he is right about massacre wounded knee - but that was almost what? 150 years ago?
[/quote]

Ahh but the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was not passed until 1978. That is quite recent.
[/quote]

So before 1978, it was ok to persecute for beliefs? 
[/quote]

Pretty much. Before the 1930s, there were outright bans against traditional Indian ceremonies. Then from the 1930s to 1978, there were some restrictions on ceremonies (i.e. where they can be preformed, usage of certain objects/plants, etc.). It isn't really until 1994 that most of those restrictions are lifted when the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was amended to allow the use of peyote in ceremonies among other things.
[/quote]

Wow, and Americans are pissed off others for oppressing religions? That's crazy!

[quote author=iago link=topic=13284.msg135012#msg135012 date=1132677815]
Wow, and Americans are pissed off others for oppressing religions? That's crazy!
[/quote]

It's America's dirty little secret that no one really knows about because they don't teach this stuff in school.

I remember talking about the BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) & religious ceremonies (peyote & teas) & the massacres.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=13284.msg135050#msg135050 date=1132697368]
I remember talking about the BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) & religious ceremonies (peyote & teas) & the massacres.
[/quote]

As do I.