[img]http://www.cold-chaos.net/hitmen/bushhorns.jpg[/img]
Bush is fucking metal.

Maybe he's declaring his allegiance with the devil.

Maybe he's declaring his allegiance to University of Texas...UT LongHorns?

A & C. Hitmen likes Metal, maybe now he'll like Bush if I say A too. :)

Just look at bush cant u tell he is a metal head?

As to which genre of metal he prefers the most: I would have to bet Doom. He seems like a doom kinda guy.

Hook 'em horns!?

Hah!

Associated Press

Oslo — U.S. President George W. Bush's “Hook 'em, 'Horns” salute got lost in translation in Norway, where shocked people interpreted his family's hand gesture during his inauguration as a salute to Satan.

In Norway, throwing up the right hand with the index and pinky fingers raised is a gesture popular among heavy-metal groups and their fans.

“Shock greeting from Bush daughter,” a headline in the Norwegian Internet newspaper Nettavisen said above a photograph of Mr. Bush's daughter, Jenna, smiling and showing the sign.

For Texans, the gesture is a sign of love for the University of Texas Longhorns, whose fans are known to shout out “Hook 'em, 'Horns!” at sporting events.

Mr. Bush, a former Texas governor, and his family made the sign to greet the Longhorn marching band as it passed during the inaugural parade through Washington during Thursday's festivities, Norway's largest newspaper, Verdens Gang, explained to its readers.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96271#msg96271 date=1106457752]
In Norway, throwing up the right hand with the index and pinky fingers raised is a gesture popular among heavy-metal groups and their fans.
[/quote]
Well, Norway and every other country in the world.

ROFL... They thought he was satan before, now I bet they think they have a good reason to believe it!

Those are clearly the University of Texas Hook'em Horns.

"Hook 'em horns" was before the Metal/Satan horn thing, no?  I thought I saw on VH1 that the metal version came out in like the 60s...I'm QUITE sure that UT would've had it before then.

Yeah, but Norweigans probably aren't the biggest Longhorns fans.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96308#msg96308 date=1106503948]
Yeah, but Norweigans probably aren't the biggest Longhorns fans.
[/quote]Them crazy bastards.  No offense  ;)  Texas is ALL about football...I don't think metal is much of a Texas music.

Metal is great music wherever you go... it knows no boundries.

That's definitely the sign of the devil here. But then, how much can we expect from him? He isn't all that clever. A wise leader would be aware of which signs are good to make, and which are inappropriate to some cultures.

I suppose he's teaming up with a certain english prince, who enjoys dressing up in nazi clothing, even when it might be disturbing to a few people. Bush should do some heil hitlers too, just to keep up.

Well, since I don't believe that in the US the sign means he supports the devil, then maybe the rest of the world shouldn't watch.  Mind their own damn business, he was showing school support...maybe THEY need to be aware of what the sign meant before assuming he supports the devil.

I'm pretty sure the signs meaning has been drawn away from supporting the devil and, outside of a few thousand people in texas, is now recognized as the universal symbol of heavy metal. These guys agree with me.

[quote author=CrAz3D link=topic=10262.msg96571#msg96571 date=1106670546]
Well, since I don't believe that in the US the sign means he supports the devil, then maybe the rest of the world shouldn't watch. Mind their own damn business, he was showing school support...maybe THEY need to be aware of what the sign meant before assuming he supports the devil.
[/quote]
If someone from mongolia gave you the middle finger, would you know he is saying "goodluck"? I doubt it's the case, but you can't be aware of customs of cultures from all over the world. I didn't know it was the longhorn's symbol until this thread, even though I watch college football from time to time and have friends who talk about college football all the time.

My first post was a joke, not to be taken literally.

If I saw a Mongolian flipping me off I'd be upset, but uf the Mongolian did it to his own people during a parade in his own country I wouldn't have flipped, I would've wondered what it meant for a while then went on about my day...not acting like it was some international scandal.

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96569#msg96569 date=1106669554]
That's definitely the sign of the devil here. But then, how much can we expect from him? He isn't all that clever. A wise leader would be aware of which signs are good to make, and which are inappropriate to some cultures.

I suppose he's teaming up with a certain english prince, who enjoys dressing up in nazi clothing, even when it might be disturbing to a few people. Bush should do some heil hitlers too, just to keep up.

[/quote]

Ah, so now Bush is at fault for not knowing the culture of every other country in the world? Is this guy anything but a scapegoat to you?

If it was anyone it wouldn't be as big a thing as if it is a president. Presidents, as well as princes, are supposed to be careful with what they do....

Making devil signs or satanistic signs goes together with the image of heavy metal, that's why they started using the signs in the first place...

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96624#msg96624 date=1106692953]
Ah, so now Bush is at fault for not knowing the culture of every other country in the world? Is this guy anything but a scapegoat to you?
[/quote]

He's a moron? But yes, not knowing what the culture is in every other country but the USA, thinking that everyone is just like Americans, that is one of his biggest flaws.

"Hey! Why don't you Iraqis love us? We're bringing you FREEDOM in Coke cans!"

I think we should just blame the College, I mean - obviously - had they not chosen that symbol this would never of happened. Or, maybe we should blame Bush for living in Texas. Not sure, but it seems as you're looking for anything you can in order to criticize him. Did you know that the symbol was for the Longhorns, Adron? Do you think whoever is in charge of Sweden would?

I think we should blame the damn Norwegians for not knowing the 'Hook 'em horns" symbol

I agree. Adron would never accept that somebody besides Bush could possibly be at fault, oh well.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96631#msg96631 date=1106694392]
I think we should just blame the College, I mean - obviously - had they not chosen that symbol this would never of happened.
[/quote]

Indeed, it's a lousy choice of symbol. They ought to change it asap. Others have changed their symbols when it has become clear to them that it has a negative connotation. IIRC, part of the finnish airforce used the svastika as their symbol at some time. After the symbol became synonymous with nazis, they ended up changing it. Of course, I'm sure Bush wouldn't be opposed to dressing up in svastikas.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96631#msg96631 date=1106694392]
Did you know that the symbol was for the Longhorns, Adron? Do you think whoever is in charge of Sweden would?
[/quote]

No, but I do know to be careful with symbol language. Gestures can have very different meanings in different cultures. If I had tv cameras pointed at me all the time, I would be careful with such things. Luckily, I don't, so I don't have to be so careful. What I wouldn't do is go for the Bush way of stampeding over other cultures.

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96627#msg96627 date=1106693183]
[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96624#msg96624 date=1106692953]
Ah, so now Bush is at fault for not knowing the culture of every other country in the world? Is this guy anything but a scapegoat to you?
[/quote]

He's a moron? But yes, not knowing what the culture is in every other country but the USA, thinking that everyone is just like Americans, that is one of his biggest flaws.

"Hey! Why don't you Iraqis love us? We're bringing you FREEDOM in Coke cans!"
[/quote]

That's nothing but troll bait.  You should know better.  If I made the same statements as the above, you would rip every word apart, every intent and meaning, since they are nearly all wrong but one -- that part about lack of all cultures being one of his biggest flaws.

Even Americans are divided on whether Iraq should have been invaded.  The Britney Spears of the world have blind support for the president and "all his decisions", so not talking about them.  Aside from whether the invasion should have happened, now that it has, yes, we are installing a version of freedom in Iraq there, sans Coke.  Did they not already have Coke, and who cares anyway?

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96733#msg96733 date=1106747867]
[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96631#msg96631 date=1106694392]
I think we should just blame the College, I mean - obviously - had they not chosen that symbol this would never of happened.
[/quote]

Indeed, it's a lousy choice of symbol. They ought to change it asap. Others have changed their symbols when it has become clear to them that it has a negative connotation. IIRC, part of the finnish airforce used the svastika as their symbol at some time. After the symbol became synonymous with nazis, they ended up changing it. Of course, I'm sure Bush wouldn't be opposed to dressing up in svastikas.

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96631#msg96631 date=1106694392]
Did you know that the symbol was for the Longhorns, Adron? Do you think whoever is in charge of Sweden would?
[/quote]

No, but I do know to be careful with symbol language. Gestures can have very different meanings in different cultures. If I had tv cameras pointed at me all the time, I would be careful with such things. Luckily, I don't, so I don't have to be so careful. What I wouldn't do is go for the Bush way of stampeding over other cultures.
[/quote]
Stampeding over other cultures?!...by the damn Norweigans assuming his supports the devil THEY are trampling over Texas culture, I think we should fucking blow them up!...those damn people assuming things because they aren't familiar with OUR customs that are used at OUR events showing support for OUR schools & citizens.

Yeah I agree, why should Americans be the only ones intune with everybody elses topic? It's already clear that the rest of the world hates us, they're just looking for anything to strengthen their case against us an our President.

And, Adron, I ask again - do you think that Carl XVI Gustaf or Göran Persson know/knew what that symbol meant to American/Texas college culture?

Why is the US always trying not to step on toes about every little thing, why don't the Norweigans try & becareful about calling the President of the United States of America a satanist?  Other countries are TRYING to find something wrong with the US to complain about.  We were criticized by how much aid we originally gave to the Asian countries hit by the tsunami...you know what, screw those damn countries!  Who helped the US when Flordia was hit over & over again by hurricanes?  Who helped the US when most of the mid-west was on fire a few years ago?  No one, that is who.

[quote author=Grok link=topic=10262.msg96761#msg96761 date=1106755310]
[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96627#msg96627 date=1106693183]
[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96624#msg96624 date=1106692953]
Ah, so now Bush is at fault for not knowing the culture of every other country in the world? Is this guy anything but a scapegoat to you?
[/quote]

He's a moron? But yes, not knowing what the culture is in every other country but the USA, thinking that everyone is just like Americans, that is one of his biggest flaws.

"Hey! Why don't you Iraqis love us? We're bringing you FREEDOM in Coke cans!"
[/quote]

That's nothing but troll bait.  You should know better.  If I made the same statements as the above, you would rip every word apart, every intent and meaning, since they are nearly all wrong but one -- that part about lack of all cultures being one of his biggest flaws.
[/quote]


It's 1/3 troll bait stupid reply about him being a moron when asked if he's anything but a scapegoat. It's 1/3 comment / opinion, pointing out that I think he's lacking in knowledge of other cultures. And it's 1/3 exaggerating how europeans look at him as trying to bring american values to other cultures and being surprised when those and the soldiers bringing them aren't embraced.


[quote author=Grok link=topic=10262.msg96761#msg96761 date=1106755310]
Even Americans are divided on whether Iraq should have been invaded.  The Britney Spears of the world have blind support for the president and "all his decisions", so not talking about them.  Aside from whether the invasion should have happened, now that it has, yes, we are installing a version of freedom in Iraq there, sans Coke.  Did they not already have Coke, and who cares anyway?
[/quote]

Pretty sure they did have Coke before. Coke and McDonalds are very successful exports of America, and they seem to penetrate even areas that resist other forms of American culture and "freedom".

[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96775#msg96775 date=1106763900]
And, Adron, I ask again - do you think that Carl XVI Gustaf or Göran Persson know/knew what that symbol meant to American/Texas college culture?
[/quote]

I don't think Carl XVI Gustaf would know - he's been known to make similar mistakes and gotten a lot of critizism for it. He's just supposed to be careful, strict, and not make any mistakes. That's what we expect of him. I would expect from Göran Persson to know before making such a gesture on tv, both how it would be interpreted locally where he is, and how it would be interpreted globally, on each continent.

Basically I'd say leaders should pick from two options: Know what you're going to do means before you do it, or don't do it.

He knew what he was doing means: 'Hook em' Horns'

I think people would like Bush if he just sat in a chair and didn't move. If he waves the wrong way people try to make it look like he's doing the Nazi salute, etc.

This Inaguration was an American ordeal, not a worldwide one. If you're watching a program designed for Americans, be intune with American culture.

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96898#msg96898 date=1106819289]
[quote author=Grok link=topic=10262.msg96761#msg96761 date=1106755310]
[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96627#msg96627 date=1106693183]
[quote author=hismajesty[yL] link=topic=10262.msg96624#msg96624 date=1106692953]
Ah, so now Bush is at fault for not knowing the culture of every other country in the world? Is this guy anything but a scapegoat to you?
[/quote]
He's a moron? But yes, not knowing what the culture is in every other country but the USA, thinking that everyone is just like Americans, that is one of his biggest flaws.
"Hey! Why don't you Iraqis love us? We're bringing you FREEDOM in Coke cans!"
[/quote]
That's nothing but troll bait.  You should know better.  If I made the same statements as the above, you would rip every word apart, every intent and meaning, since they are nearly all wrong but one -- that part about lack of all cultures being one of his biggest flaws.
[/quote]
It's 1/3 troll bait stupid reply about him being a moron when asked if he's anything but a scapegoat. It's 1/3 comment / opinion, pointing out that I think he's lacking in knowledge of other cultures. And it's 1/3 exaggerating how europeans look at him as trying to bring american values to other cultures and being surprised when those and the soldiers bringing them aren't embraced.
[quote author=Grok link=topic=10262.msg96761#msg96761 date=1106755310]
Even Americans are divided on whether Iraq should have been invaded.  The Britney Spears of the world have blind support for the president and "all his decisions", so not talking about them.  Aside from whether the invasion should have happened, now that it has, yes, we are installing a version of freedom in Iraq there, sans Coke.  Did they not already have Coke, and who cares anyway?
[/quote]
Pretty sure they did have Coke before. Coke and McDonalds are very successful exports of America, and they seem to penetrate even areas that resist other forms of American culture and "freedom".
[/quote]
Am I the only person that sees that as satire? He's using an effective form of criticism to attack a larger power than himself, namely the majority of the users on this forum.

I for one see nothing wrong with what he did. As it was explained, he was supporting his school and showing some spirit, I know I would do the same. Some idiot thought it would be clever to trick people into thinking Bush is satanic and turn the world against him. The whole thing was taken out of context, and had they known what was going on at the time (probably other longhorn fans were doing it too) it's possible people wouldn't be crying over it. I fail to see how this would affect other cultures either, are there people who actually believe that doing that with your hands is a sign you've made a pact with the devil? How does it threaten their safety or way of life?

I find this as stupid as this kid that told me I owed him cause I'm white and white people enslaved black people. People have some sort of ideology and are too hell bent on it letting go of it no matter how stupid it is.

[quote]I fail to see how this would affect other cultures either, are there people who actually believe that doing that with your hands is a sign you've made a pact with the devil?[/quote]...I believe that those people that think that you're affiliated with the devil because you made some hand gesture that has been around for, as far as we know, millions of years, are VERY narrow minded.  The ones who support the narrow minded people must be even more idiotic than the ones they are supporting.

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96569#msg96569 date=1106669554]
That's definitely the sign of the devil here. But then, how much can we expect from him? He isn't all that clever. A wise leader would be aware of which signs are good to make, and which are inappropriate to some cultures.

I suppose he's teaming up with a certain english prince, who enjoys dressing up in nazi clothing, even when it might be disturbing to a few people. Bush should do some heil hitlers too, just to keep up.

[/quote]

The gesture is commonly used in the United States in connection to heavy metal music or the "Hook 'em Horns" for the University of Texas.  The gesture obviously has several uses, most of which do not carry a negative meaning.  Since you compare this to a "certain english prince," perhaps you could explain to the rest of us the positive connotations in wearing Nazi uniforms.  Otherwise I see no connection.

The "incident" happened during Bush's inauguration, an event that is of primary importance to Americans.  Why in the hell would he be expected to make sure that every little gesture he makes isn't going to offend someone living in a hole in the ground on the other side of the world?  If he was in a foreign country, I would agree that he should be mindful of their languages and gestures.  But while he is at his own inauguration?  That's absurd.

It seems absurd to us red blooded Americans, however there are afew other members of the forum that are too closed minded about things

You people will argue about fucking anything

[quote author=DOOM link=topic=10262.msg96945#msg96945 date=1106853998]
The gesture is commonly used in the United States in connection to heavy metal music or the "Hook 'em Horns" for the University of Texas.  The gesture obviously has several uses, most of which do not carry a negative meaning.  Since you compare this to a "certain english prince," perhaps you could explain to the rest of us the positive connotations in wearing Nazi uniforms.  Otherwise I see no connection.
[/quote]

Well, the svastika is a symbol for the sun. If it hadn't been for the nazis using it, I think everyone would've had positive or no connotations for it. To find someone with a positive connotation for it today, look for people who haven't suffered from nazis. There are bound to be some.

[quote author=DOOM link=topic=10262.msg96945#msg96945 date=1106853998]
The "incident" happened during Bush's inauguration, an event that is of primary importance to Americans.  Why in the hell would he be expected to make sure that every little gesture he makes isn't going to offend someone living in a hole in the ground on the other side of the world?  If he was in a foreign country, I would agree that he should be mindful of their languages and gestures.  But while he is at his own inauguration?  That's absurd.
[/quote]

Hmm, I suppose you may want to see it that way. Still, decisions he makes may have an effect on foreign countries, so in a way, his inauguration is important to others. It was quite obviously seen in other countries...

Prince Harry flat out wore a "WWII German" uniform with the swastika on it, he wasn't misunderstood that he was trying to support a school he likes, he did it just because.  Bush had good intent.

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96569#msg96569 date=1106669554]Bush should do some heil hitlers too, just to keep up. [/quote]

I have nothing to add to the conversation, other than to mention that this almost made me fall out of my chair laughing.  Ahh, what would I do without you Adron...

First
The symbol has nothing to do with satan, Ronnie James Dio(the guy who made it popular) was talking about it on vh1.  He said his grandmother did it when he was a child, and it meant protection from the evil eye.

Second
Who gives a fuck what a bunch of norwegians think?  The president was cheering on his school of choice's band.

[quote author=Forged link=topic=10262.msg97011#msg97011 date=1106872398]
First
The symbol has nothing to do with satan, Ronnie James Dio(the guy who made it popular) was talking about it on vh1.  He said his grandmother did it when he was a child, and it meant protection from the evil eye.

Second
Who gives a fuck what a bunch of norwegians think?  The president was cheering on his school of choice's band.
[/quote]
I saw that on VH1 too.

YaY!, Forged supports the right side this time!  <3!

or Forged just happens to be a UT fan :P

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg96992#msg96992 date=1106866854]
Well, the svastika is a symbol for the sun. If it hadn't been for the nazis using it, I think everyone would've had positive or no connotations for it. To find someone with a positive connotation for it today, look for people who haven't suffered from nazis. There are bound to be some. [/quote]

Except the swastika is a symbol the is commonly thought of as evil all over the world.  I can't think of any positive connotation for it in today's world.  The "Hook 'em Horns" is a different story all together.  Apples and oranges.

[quote]
Hmm, I suppose you may want to see it that way. Still, decisions he makes may have an effect on foreign countries, so in a way, his inauguration is important to others. It was quite obviously seen in other countries...
[/quote]

So even though he is a Texan, who is proud Texas Longhorns fan, can't make a gesture of celebration at his own party because a few people half way across the world might not know what it means?  Don't be ridiculous.

YAY!... UT isn't that awesome I think, I think the REAL Texas school is A&M Aggies.

[quote author=DOOM link=topic=10262.msg97065#msg97065 date=1106884473]
Except the swastika is a symbol the is commonly thought of as evil all over the world.  I can't think of any positive connotation for it in today's world.  The "Hook 'em Horns" is a different story all together.  Apples and oranges.
[/quote]

It's still the sun sign. Just remains to find people unaffected by nazis. I could well see some sports team somewhere picking it up and using it. Somewhere in China perhaps? There's a lot of people there, and I don't think China was severely affected by the nazis?


[quote author=DOOM link=topic=10262.msg97065#msg97065 date=1106884473]
So even though he is a Texan, who is proud Texas Longhorns fan, can't make a gesture of celebration at his own party because a few people half way across the world might not know what it means?  Don't be ridiculous.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure more people know that it's the sign of the devil than that it's a longhorns sign. You may want to revise "few".


An addition; for a costume to be appropriate for a masquerade, it doesn't necessary have to be non-evil. Dressing up like a devil, werewolf, vampire or other evil things is OK.

Not all people think that it is supporting Satan, some believe that it is warning OFF evil, others it is just a rock symbol.


A costume representing evil through a werewolf is not offending...a costume where someone is dressed like a soldier that slaughtered your family is just a little offenseive to some people...unless of course you're a heartless bastard.

[quote author=Adron link=topic=10262.msg97097#msg97097 date=1106904262]
It's still the sun sign. Just remains to find people unaffected by nazis. I could well see some sports team somewhere picking it up and using it. Somewhere in China perhaps? There's a lot of people there, and I don't think China was severely affected by the nazis? [/quote]

If some Chinese sports team wanted to use the symbol, I've got no problem with it.  If it means something different to them than it did to the Nazis, that's great.  It is unreasonable to expect every culture to change so as not to potentially offend someone else's culture.  If the French change their culture and start bathing daily, I'd be a little more impressed, but I don't see very many Europeans suggesting that they change their culture to fit in more with Americans.  To me, this entire subject is a non-issue.  Bush is free to make whatever hand gesture he wants in his own country, at his own party.  If someone half way across the world doesn't like it, tough.  This is just another excuse for people to bitch about Bush and I think it really shows how desperate these people are when they have to stoop this low.

[quote]
I'm pretty sure more people know that it's the sign of the devil than that it's a longhorns sign. You may want to revise "few".
[/quote]

I don't know... I've never heard of it being used as an actual sign of the devil.  I always think of music or the Texas Longhorns when I see it.

[quote]I'm pretty sure more people know that it's the sign of the devil than that it's a longhorns sign. You may want to revise "few".[/quote]
Another 2 points
1.Before doing this he just took an oath of office in which he included "so help me god"

2.Who cares if he worships satan?  Last I checked a person of any religon could be president.  Just because Devil worship is not main stream doesn't neccisarilly make it bad...

[quote author=DOOM link=topic=10262.msg97138#msg97138 date=1106940449]
[quote]
I'm pretty sure more people know that it's the sign of the devil than that it's a longhorns sign. You may want to revise "few".
[/quote]

I don't know... I've never heard of it being used as an actual sign of the devil.  I always think of music or the Texas Longhorns when I see it.
[/quote]

Well, when I saw the linked picture, I immediately assumed it was photoshopped. I couldn't imagine they were actually making those signs.